God Bless America

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ADRIANA_A
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Postby ADRIANA_A » Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:24 pm

That's such an unfair comment that i always hear Dubya and the rest of his nation making. Can't i get a bit of the God's blessing every now and again please??? I'm starting to feel left out. :(

But maybe it's because I don't believe in violence and war to solve conflict (I learned the lessons of 9/11 and the ramifications that violent acts have on humans).

After all, if God's blessing the land of the free whilst this destruction of humanity is happening, maybe he too believes in war, and therefore people like me don't deserve his blessing. I'm questioning my faith as I write :unsure:

Peace.

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Postby DarkDance » Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:56 pm

I'm questioning my faith as I write

Huh yeah :pray: - I'm questioning your faith too.

people like me don't deserve his blessing

I wouldn't have been rude enough to be the first to suggest that, but since these are your words, I'll just agree with you. :headbanger:

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:50 am

Wow thanx! i feels so enlightened.

As a believe in non violence, I think i'm right to question my faith, if God supposedly is on the side of pro-war.

Thanx for using my words against me: but i used them first so I conclude that my question still hasn't been answered. Guess you just don't know :lol:

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Postby lancesgrl » Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:50 am

what exactly IS your question? :shrug:

the first question i actually got from your post was.... is God pro war? now, that just makes me wonder something.... how in the world are you actually thinking you will get a definitive answer to a question like that? shall i phone God and ask?

the second question i believe you asked was....
Can't i get a bit of the God's blessing every now and again please??? I'm starting to feel left out.  


how odd that you would make a statement like this seeing as you care so much for those suffering due to all of the violence. the way i see it, you are sitting here and America whining about how you are losing faith in your God, but you still are asking for his blessing for yourself????? how very presumptuous of you.

there are about a thousand things i could say about your post, adriana... but i won't... simply because it is hard enough discussing the various assumptions about whether this war is right or wrong without bringing in the question of whether or not God himself is pro war.

personally, i don't believe in a vengeful God, but whether or not you do is a question that is very much yours to answer.

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Postby heloise » Mon Mar 31, 2003 5:38 pm

well, i think (perhaps i'm wrong) that darkdance and lances are for the war or simply liek bush (this two thing make me vomit)....

I just heard soem jew in france who said something liek "bush is given by god" so like bush is for war, u can imagien that God is for war ;)
but if u think the Pape (sorry, i'm not sure of the english world) represent God so God is against....i'm not sure it helps u, adriana but it's all i have :(

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Postby Milla » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:16 pm

ditto heloise... me, seeing darkdances comments before on another topic, makes me feel that i should not waste my time at all trying to refute any of the comments darkdance makes.

do not give up faith, adriana. i have seen and experienced many things that can easily make me give up faith in god, and i know sometimes you just don't care anymore, because praying doesn't seem to do anything, but if it wasn't for prayers and actions, palestinian people would probably be all dead by now, if it wasn't the people in europe and all around the globe, making protests about palestinine (before all this iraq crap).

um.....please don't mistake me for some over-christianized person, i am probably the least psycho-about-christianity person you guys will ever meet or talk to.


lamya, where are you girl? this is your kind of topic!

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Postby heloise » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:22 pm

Milla wrote: lamya, where are you girl? this is your kind of topic!

She's perhaps boring to read always the same stupid comment of soem bloodie american fat ass who think they're the best !


if i'd belive in God, trust me milla, i'll pray day by day for palestine :( ..i just hope all will be fine ! take care

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Postby Milla » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:27 pm

you don't believe in god?

and, that was funny. but i promised not to ever use bad language in topics like this. damn. me and my good moods.

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Postby heloise » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:33 pm

NO
sometime i'm wonder if he exists but in this moment, i think about palestine and all this war and i wonder why God let this stuff happen....i prefer don't belive in it ! too much person use God in order to do soem bad thing (liek bush for example) and it makes me vomit

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Postby Milla » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:36 pm

i can think of one very valid reason why god would let this all happen. and i have many followers and people who agree with me, just to let you know. is anyone curious to know what that reason is?

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Postby heloise » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:41 pm

I'm curious to know....

I would belive in it but i cant do it just cuz i want....the religion are the thing the most important in th world and i feel sometim alone specialy here where the majority belive in it... :(

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Postby lancesgrl » Tue Apr 01, 2003 10:13 am

heloise wrote:She's perhaps boring to read always the same stupid comment of soem bloodie american fat ass who think they're the best !



oh wow. how intelligent was THAT statement? :rolleyes:

and yeah.... good point... where IS "lamya" now? :confused:

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Postby txnchick » Tue Apr 01, 2003 11:40 am

That's such an unfair comment that i always hear Dubya and the rest of his nation making. Can't i get a bit of the God's blessing every now and again please??? I'm starting to feel left out.


If you don't believe that the 41+ Americans who have given their lives for this country so far in this war deserve His blessing, that is your problem. If you want God's blessing, ask him for it.

But maybe it's because I don't believe in violence and war to solve conflict (I learned the lessons of 9/11 and the ramifications that violent acts have on humans).


Violence and war seem to be the only way to solve this conflict. We gave him 12 years to disarm. I think that's long enough.


After all, if God's blessing the land of the free whilst this destruction of humanity is happening, maybe he too believes in war, and therefore people like me don't deserve his blessing. I'm questioning my faith as I write


This also sounds like a personal problem to me. You can't blame us for your loss of faith. BTW, Saddam has certainly killed more of his own people over the years than we probably ever will in this war. If you are questioning where God is now, where was he then?


Peace.


It's a beautiful concept, but as long as people like Saddam Hussein are allowed to rule countries, it will never happen.

God Bless America!

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Postby txnchick » Tue Apr 01, 2003 11:47 am

She's perhaps boring to read...


Yes, I'm sure she's very boring.


...always the same stupid comment of soem bloodie american fat ass who think they're the best !


You better watch out, I'll sit on you. :P

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Postby heloise » Tue Apr 01, 2003 11:50 am

txnchick wrote: Violence and war seem to be the only way to solve this conflict. We gave him 12 years to disarm. I think that's long enough.

NO WEAPON IN IRAQ

plz, give me proove of that....after, we'll see

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Postby txnchick » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:10 pm

NO WEAPON IN IRAQ


You can't be serious. Are you completely delusional?

plz, give me proove of that....after, we'll see


I can't say that I personally have any physical proof. I don't frequently take trips to Iraq to document their weapons of mass destruction. Maybe try watching the news or reading the newspaper or something. Your country has those, right? Anyone with common sense can figure out what's going on...Well, maybe that's your problem...

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Postby heloise » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:39 pm

If iraq has weapon of mass destruction, why they dont use them ??? they only use old machine-guns, it dated the war iraq/iran so plz, dont tell me it's a powerfull weapon ...the DCA isn't powerfull at all....

I'm not delusional....I'm jsut realistic....

I don't frequently take trips to Iraq to document their weapons of mass destruction

ONU did it and didn't try anything...but the GLORIOUS bush has prove, so the GLORIOUS bush do a war.....alone !
I can say, saddam is a dictator but he hasn't weappon of mass destruction ! but if u're too limit for undertand that !

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Postby txnchick » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:48 pm

ONU did it and didn't try anything...but the GLORIOUS bush has prove, so the GLORIOUS bush do a war.....alone !
I can say, saddam is a dictator but he hasn't weappon of mass destruction ! but if u're too limit for undertand that


British & American troops have already found evidence of chemical weapons, and Iraq has fired missiles at Kuwait that they aren't supposed to have, not to mention the photographs and recorded phone calls showing hidden weapons bunkers, etc. that Powell showed to the UN. I would say that all of this pretty much speaks for itself, but maybe you are...
too limit for undertand that


Whatever that means.

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:35 pm

Saddam needs to be removed?? Hell yes!!!

But why did USA support this man's regime for so long???? Groups were camapigning against this man from day one. Why did America take so long to act??

Colin powell's 'proof' to the UN??? :D :D :D :D Very convincing(!) It's important not to put blind faith in our leaders - they don't tell us everything, and this world is far too corrupt for anyone to really care beyond their own interests. His proof to the UN would have been thrown out of court. And it's siince been proven that the area where these arieal photographs were taken were completely irrelvant. It was a PR exercise to win support for the war. Don't accept!! Question!!!

Tell me: Saudi Arabia is a worst dictatorship,and has an absolutely appaling human rights catalogue.
Why is American not as persistent to sort out this country? Afterall, we're all doing this war for liberation aren't we? Why on earth would America - a country about liberating the oppressed (Palestinians not included) sit back and let this Saudi regime continue having authority? (!) I can't think why :unsure:
I'm sure that in 10 years time we'll all be going to war with Saudi, after the oil has been sucked dry, and start making people more aware of their regime. But until then, a lid is being kept on it by a media system that is gradually becoming more and more Government regulated. The American media's partiality is alarming - it's a media that seems to be asleep at the wheel and not interested in presenting the bigger picture to its people.

My sympathies are with the troops who weren't prepared for this war - they were told they'd be fighting 'rag heads' in 'flip-flops'. The resistance faced by an almost non-existen Iraqi military is shocking to say the least.

And I hope God is blessing the civilians, who've had to put up with us supporting this tyrant for many years, along with our sanctions and endless bombing of them. They must be a little pissed with us all.

Let's not forget that this war was all about weapons of mass destruction. It's absolutely important they find them - and of course they will, 'cos America, Britain and France sold it to him in the first place!! But he was kiling the Iranians and Kurds back then - we didn't care as long as it wasn't us. The fact is WE supported this man when he was at his most dangerous. And we did nothing to stop it.

But let's see what happens in post-war iraq - if Iraq becomes the democracy that the IRAQI people want and that America keeps its hand off the goods and more importantly, the Americans and Brits must leave Iraq after the war and allow the setup of an interim authority to govern iraq which will serve the interests of the Iraqis and NOT OURS. The UN is the only body that should head the rebuilding - and America must allow it. Otherwise, the imperialistic theories won't go away, and we need to still acknowledge that the UN still has an important role in this world.

The entire concept of the UN is that nations work together as one - forget the disagreements that everyone had before the war (stop pissing on the French, they are entitled to take whatever position they want on this matter, it's a free world right??? and denigrating them ain't productive - it's juvenile to say the least)
The war is happening - let it finish...SOON and then everyone (NOT JUST USA) should help rebulid this poor nation and bring some f***ing hope to these people)

Once all this happens - i've said it to my mates - I'll be the first to shake Bush's hand. But until then, let me remain sceptical - it's only human nature.

And txnchick - I can think of another country that has been defying UN laws for many yeras whilst continuing to illegally occupy land that isn't theirs. What should we do about them? But is it one rule for once country and one for another? that's not a stance that I think the most powerful nation should take. As a superpower, America needs to be more impartial when dealing with the world. It's this biased support of countries that is causing so much anger in the Middle East. You can't expect one man to obey UN laws, whilst another is defying - it's a doublestandard.

This world is such a goddamn playground.

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:17 pm

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!! :o I started this topic with a genuine curiosity.

But after going here: - dubyaspeak.com/war.shtmlhttp://www.dubyaspeak.com/war.shtml

I'm sorry, really sorry....... maybe America and it's people do need God's blessing afterall. To have this incompetent irresponsible man running such a nation is frightening tos ay the least :blink:

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Postby lancesgrl » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:43 pm

:rolleyes: oh here we go with the same old same old about misusing words, etc. yes, bush has certainly had his share of ribbing over this. even i chuckled a bit when SNL did some spoofs on "bush-isms" and the like. but that is old news now. :rolleyes: good lord... if you really want to make a point about the rights and wrongs about the iraq situation, try pulling out something else other than cheap shots about his vocabulary. if i sat down with a transcript from a press conference of any other politician in any given country, i could probably find just as many grammatical errors.

*sigh* :rolleyes: but whatever... if all you can manage are chicken shiit shots at bush, then go ahead. :shrug: it's not like it makes a damn bit of difference. i support bush and our u.s. troops, as do many americans. god bless the u.s.a. indeed!

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Postby Claire » Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:08 am

Go on, this is actually enjoyable to watch. :lol:

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Postby txnchick » Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:12 am

But why did USA support this man's regime for so long???? Groups were camapigning against this man from day one. Why did America take so long to act??


Unfortunately, I don't have answers to questions like that. As you say in your next paragraph, they don't tell us everything.

Colin powell's 'proof' to the UN???     Very convincing(!) It's important not to put blind faith in our leaders - they don't tell us everything, and this world is far too corrupt for anyone to really care beyond their own interests. His proof to the UN would have been thrown out of court. And it's siince been proven that the area where these arieal photographs were taken were completely irrelvant. It was a PR exercise to win support for the war. Don't accept!! Question!!!


It was certainly enough for the U.S. to have a valid belief that w.o.m.d. would definitely be a threat from Saddam. I think the rest of the world should have taken it a bit more seriously - especially if so many people have been campaigning against him from day one.

Tell me: Saudi Arabia is a worst dictatorship,and has an absolutely appaling human rights catalogue.
Why is American not as persistent to sort out this country? Afterall, we're all doing this war for liberation aren't we?


You've said yourself our leaders don't tell us everything; therefore, I can't answer this question either. Although, I do agree with you completely. You did say yourself that this war is about weapons of mass destructions and not liberation.

My sympathies are with the troops who weren't prepared for this war - they were told they'd be fighting 'rag heads' in 'flip-flops'. The resistance faced by an almost non-existen Iraqi military is shocking to say the least.


We appreciate it. Some people on this board don't seem to share your sympathy.


And I hope God is blessing the civilians, who've had to put up with us supporting this tyrant for many years, along with our sanctions and endless bombing of them. They must be a little pissed with us all.


Certainly.

Let's not forget that this war was all about weapons of mass destruction. It's absolutely important they find them - and of course they will, 'cos America, Britain and France sold it to him in the first place!! But he was kiling the Iranians and Kurds back then - we didn't care as long as it wasn't us. The fact is WE supported this man when he was at his most dangerous. And we did nothing to stop it
.

Looks like we may have found them - Check out MSNBC, and once again, I completely agree with you.

But let's see what happens in post-war iraq - if Iraq becomes the democracy that the IRAQI people want and that America keeps its hand off the goods and more importantly, the Americans and Brits must leave Iraq after the war and allow the setup of an interim authority to govern iraq which will serve the interests of the Iraqis and NOT OURS. The UN is the only body that should head the rebuilding - and America must allow it. Otherwise, the imperialistic theories won't go away, and we need to still acknowledge that the UN still has an important role in this world.


Once again, I agree.

The entire concept of the UN is that nations work together as one - forget the disagreements that everyone had before the war (stop pissing on the French, they are entitled to take whatever position they want on this matter, it's a free world right??? and denigrating them ain't productive - it's juvenile to say the least)
The war is happening - let it finish...SOON and then everyone (NOT JUST USA) should help rebulid this poor nation and bring some f***ing hope to these people)


I certainly hope this comment was not directed at me. I have yet to directly insult the French. I will admit to retaliating a few times, but even then it wasn't an insult to a country.


And txnchick - I can think of another country that has been defying UN laws for many yeras whilst continuing to illegally occupy land that isn't theirs. What should we do about them? But is it one rule for once country and one for another? that's not a stance that I think the most powerful nation should take. As a superpower, America needs to be more impartial when dealing with the world. It's this biased support of countries that is causing so much anger in the Middle East. You can't expect one man to obey UN laws, whilst another is defying - it's a doublestandard
.

It is a double-standard. Life is full of them, and there's not a whole lot I can do about it.

Peace out.
God Bless America

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:55 am

-

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:51 am

Unfortunately, I don't have answers to questions like that.  As you say in your next paragraph, they don't tell us everything


It's not about having answers, it's about having an opinion and questioning the hypocrisies. yes, they don't tell us everything - only what is benefical to their cause at the time.

It was certainly enough for the U.S. to have a valid belief that w.o.m.d. would definitely be a threat from Saddam. I think the rest of the world should have taken it a bit more seriously - especially if so many people have been campaigning against him from day one.


america doesn't live in this world alone - it's not enough to convince itself, but to convince other nations too. The long-running campaign against him was never about WOMD, but about the mistreatment of his people.
We didn't think America would be foolish enough to sell WOMD to this man in the first place. :rolleyes:

You've said yourself our leaders don't tell us everything; therefore, I can't answer this question either. Although, I do agree with you completely. You did say yourself that this war is about weapons of mass destructions and not liberation.


Again, i'm not expecting answers, just an opinion on it. And to be honest, I'm not sure which is the correct option as far as a reason for having war in the first place is concerned. Liberation today....WOMD tomorrow.....

We appreciate it. Some people on this board don't seem to share your sympathy.


I don't just talk about the american troops but our British men and women too. But having said that...none of them are conscripted. Civilans are still the main casualties of war.

Looks like we may have found them - Check out MSNBC, and once again, I completely agree with you.


Wrong. US scientists carried out preliminary tests and they appear to be an anti-dote to nerve gas. Let's go back to liberation being our reason for going to war..... however, if chemicals are found, we'll go to WOMD as being our reason.

certainly hope this comment was not directed at me. I have yet to directly insult the French. I will admit to retaliating a few times, but even then it wasn't an insult to a country.


Of course not..... you've not said anything as far as I know, but I would be grateful if someone would enlighten me as to why the French got so much sh** in the first place. The anti-French sentiment appeared on the scene first with the boycotting of French products. So what, they didn't support u.....get over it! It's not as if their opinion was paramount anyway. The war still went ahead!

It is a double-standard. Life is full of them, and there's not a whole lot I can do about it.


The fact you've admitted it is a double-standard is good, but to have ablase attitude and say life is full of them, really misses the point.

Peace Out


I'm optimistic

pulling out something else other than cheap shots about his vocabulary.


why? It's too much fun. :headbanger:

And anyway, it's not just his vocab, it's his obvious lack of intelligence about the world. Okay, he's charming, he's passionate, he's patriotic blah-blah- so go work in a store.....are these the only qualifications a person needs to become President of the most powerful nation?? let's all run then shall we? To expect your President to be intellectual and highly educated, I would hope is not a lot to ask for. I'm sure if Bush wasn't a White-christian man you'd all still overlook his lack of basic grammar(!). :D

if i sat down with a transcript from a press conference of any other politician in any given country, i could probably find just as many grammatical errors


I've yet to see anyone match Bush...but go ahead..knock yourself out. :whistle:

it's not like it makes a damn bit of difference


I'm sure that would be your attitude if i "tried pulling out something else other than cheap shots " .... so either way, what have I got to lose?? :shrug:

i support bush and our u.s. troops, as do many americans. god bless the u.s.a. indeed!
:notworthy:

It would do our american friends well to remember it isn't just their troops or country who have put their necks on the line. You expect sympathy for your troops, please would you be so kind as to acknowledge the British involvement?? Or is that too much to ask? :thinking:

God Bless the World and all those who suffer in it, regardless of nationalities. Rather take that stance. :smokin:

:crossfingers:

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Postby txnchick » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:12 pm

We didn't think America would befoolish enoughto sell WOMD to this man in thefirst place


Since we're all about proof in this room, why don't you go find me some proof of that?

Again, i'm not expecting answers, just an opinion on it. And to be honest, I'm not sure which is the correct option as far as a reason for having war in the first place is concerned. Liberation today....WOMD tomorrow.....


That's my point exactly. Everyone's SO AGAINST the war, but they can't come up with any better ideas.


Wrong. US scientists carried out preliminary tests and they appear to be an anti-dote to nerve gas. Let's go back to liberation being ourreason for going to war..... however, if chemicals are found, we'll go to WOMD as being our reason.


You are referring strictly to the barrels found underground, not the missiles. They are still undergoing testing. Here's a question for you, though? Why do you think they have an antidote to nerve gas?? Maybe because they know they could be exposed to it somehow? Wait, I can't imagine how that could happen?

It would do our american friends well to remember it isn't just their troops or country who have put their necks on the line. You expect sympathy for your troops, please would you be so kind as to acknowledge the British involvement?? Or is thattoo much to ask?


Here we go again. I am so sick of this "we don't recognize the British involvement, we're so self-centered b.s." Nobody was attacking the British on this message board. Nobody found it funny that British soldiers were being killed. Nobody called them "uneducated", "fat-asses", or whatever other garden-variety lame insults they could come up with. I am an American citizen, and I support our troops - bottom line. I don't see anything wrong with that. I wholeheartedly thank the British for all their support, but that wasn't the topic of this discussion.

God Bless the World and all those who suffer in it, regardless of nationalities. Rather take that stance.


I believe I have visibly taken that stance on more than one occasion on this board, so I'm not sure what the point of that comment was.

God bless us, every one.

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:26 pm

[/QUOTE]
Since we're all about proof in this room, why don't you go find me some proof of that?


I would've thought that was common knowledge. The British, France and German govts have all admitted trading with the man, and Rumsfeld when interviewed by David Dimbleby grudgingly admitted it too. Let me be clear: we all make mistakes, and I'm sure trading with him was regrettable. But if these countries just admitted thir mistake, it would mean something. They couldn't be accused of complete hypocrisy.

That's my point exactly. Everyone's SO AGAINST the war, but they can't come up with any better ideas.


It's not about coming up with better ideas. As a tax-paying citizen of Britain is it so much to expect my govt to tell me exactly why we're fighting in this war? Apparently they don't want to start a public panic - but putting soldiers in British airports (something that was never done when the IRA were at their worst) along with talks of gas mask and so forth doesn't help.

Why do you think they have an antidote to nerve gas?? Maybe because they know they could be exposed to it somehow? Wait, I can't imagine how that could happen?


That's open to ambiguity. Maybe they have the weapons (but MAYBE isn't enough) or maybe in fear of an attack from the outside. Like I've said, show me the weapons and proof that they would've been an imminent threat, your President has my support.

Here we go again. I am so sick of this "we don't recognize the British involvement, we're so self-centered b.s." Nobody was attacking the British on this message board. Nobody found it funny that British soldiers were being killed.


I didn't find it funny when American soldiers were killed either - i'm in recognition of the fact that a lot of those fighting are of very young ages.

Nobody called them "uneducated", "fat-asses", or whatever other garden-variety lame insults they could come up with.


Those kind of childish, playground, uneducated comments have never come from my mouth. To be insulted and offended by that is perfectly understood.

I am an American citizen, and I support our troops - bottom line.
I don't see anything wrong with that.


I agree. But I have problems with being too patriotic. But that's just me. :shrug:

I wholeheartedly thank the British for all their support, but that wasn't the topic of this discussion


I believe I have visibly taken that stance on more than one occasion on this board,


That is welcomed, but in my defense the comment wasn't directed towards you but to lancesgirl. I am more than aware of the stance you have taken on these message boards.

God bless us, every one.


Couldn't agree more txnchick. :)

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Postby txnchick » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:48 pm

I would've thought that was common knowledge. The British, France and German govts have all admitted trading with the man, and Rumsfeld when interviewed by David Dimbleby grudgingly admitted it too. Let me be clear: we all make mistakes, and I'm sure trading with him was regrettable. But if these countries just admitted thir mistake, it would mean something. They couldn't be accused of complete hypocrisy
.

The thing is, the U.S. has admitted it's mistake - Years and years ago. We haven't been hanging out selling him w.o.m.d. - which was my point. I think we may have ventured away from what we were actually talking about here - ANYWAY, yes we did help Saddam with various weapons when his country was constantly under attack by Iran. Like I said, that was a long time ago and we have given him PLENTY of time to get rid of the stuff.

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:55 pm

Your comments suggest you didn't need proof then? ;) However, Your opinion is noted and respected (and I hope mine is too) I guess generally we're coming from two different viewpoints here and the nature of our discussions are always likely to provoke disagreements. The viewpoints presented by both our media systems is different to say the least. Impartiality seems to be a thing of the past

Like I originally said, I hope the outcome of this war promises to be what we have been told and (not to forget), that a lasting peace is finally brought to Israel and Palestine, where historical injustices are finally corrected.

The support then would be immeasurable.

:crossfingers:

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Postby Milla » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:58 pm

forgetting basic grammar, proof of womd and chemical weapons and what not, and everything like that.

yes, yes, saddam is terrible and yes, yes, he's killed hundreds of people and yes, yes, blah, blah, blah.

i think right now, the only thing we should be arguing about here are the strictly innocent people that are being killed by american and british bombs and shots. take the amount of soldiers dead at any period, and multiply it by 20, and you have the amount of iraqis being killed. they are just fukcing innocent people! children, parents, old people, you name it, they've killed it. they don't show it to you on cnn and msnbc and that goddamn israeli network (fox news) because of law, and that's fine, that's fine for the children, but they could at least talk like there ARE mass numbers of people being killed. and yes, i will say it. cnn is bias. if you want to say it is not, and you have not read or heard or seen anything other than english (including american) news, then i doubt you have heard both sides. i have seen and heard both sides, and i can truly say that cnn is the bias one. i am not saying that everything they say is just crap and defending the americans, but, come on! sometimes, it goes too far. any followers? any non-americans?

ready to debate (peacefully),
milla :D

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:16 pm

Milla wrote: forgetting basic grammar, proof of womd and chemical weapons and what not, and everything like that.

yes, yes, saddam is terrible and yes, yes, he's killed hundreds of people and yes, yes, blah, blah, blah.

i think right now, the only thing we should be arguing about here are the strictly innocent people that are being killed by american and british bombs and shots. take the amount of soldiers dead at any period, and multiply it by 20, and you have the amount of iraqis being killed. they are just fukcing innocent people! children, parents, old people, you name it, they've killed it. they don't show it to you on cnn and msnbc and that goddamn israeli network (fox news) because of law, and that's fine, that's fine for the children, but they could at least talk like there ARE mass numbers of people being killed. and yes, i will say it. cnn is bias. if you want to say it is not, and you have not read or heard or seen anything other than english (including american) news, then i doubt you have heard both sides. i have seen and heard both sides, and i can truly say that cnn is the bias one. i am not saying that everything they say is just crap and defending the americans, but, come on! sometimes, it goes too far. any followers? any non-americans?

ready to debate (peacefully),
milla :D


I believe there is a lot of partiality going on. The media has become a source of knowledge for most that the govts have started regulating it. In Britain, the journalists were being balanced, but were then accused of 'kowtowing to the enemy' simply translated as: you're with us or against it' <_<

People also got fed up with the constant reporting of soldiers killed, but that's the nature of war. It will be reported, it does no good to hide these things from the public.
And I don't feel that is playing up to the enemy.

I know that Al-Jazheera and some Iraqi networks were also allowed slots on prime time UK news, but it's all in the name of impartiality. Who took those Iraqi ministers seriously anyway? their empty threats were cringing to say the least. I also found CNN rather irritating, simple solution - switch off :headbanger:

I do fear that we're not always given the full picture and yes media ownership can be a decisive factor in what kind of agenda these news channels pursue. But with the Internet at hand, it's up to people to go out and educate themselves.

We shouln't put too much importance on these newspapers either come to think of it. Half of them (if not all) paticularly here in the UK, don't have a particular belief system, it's all about who sells the most. The same goes for televison: to a large extent it's about tv ratings.

Of course the civilians matter : like I've said, soldiers aren't conscripted, and although it's terrible when theyare killed, it's a consequence of their committment. Civilans don't choose to be part of the war. But then when these comments are made someone will say, well it's Saddam's fault these kids are hurt in war. True - but only to an extent. The buck can't always be passed to him - however convenient it may be - these children are being maimed and injured by our bombs and we should hold our hands up to it.

When people say SHussein would have killed more than we are killing now, I feel to an extent it's a cop-out. Murder is murder, no matter whose doing it. It's as if people are implying some have a license to destroy lives, whilst others don't. It's a dangerous double standard.

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Postby txnchick » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:26 pm

i think right now, the only thing we should be arguing about here are the strictly innocent people that are being killed by american and british bombs and shots. take the amount of soldiers dead at any period, and multiply it by 20, and you have the amount of iraqis being killed. they are just fukcing innocent people! children, parents, old people, you name it, they've killed it. they don't show it to you on cnn and msnbc and that goddamn israeli network (fox news) because of law, and that's fine, that's fine for the children, but they could at least talk like there ARE mass numbers of people being killed.


Innocent people die in every war. Yes, it is terrible. They haven't done anything to warrant being killed. I COMPLETELY agree with you. We hear about it every day here. It is WIDELY publicized. I know you claim to watch all news channels, but if you really were, then you would know that we are all aware of the Iraqi casualties of war. The point of discussing the American troops in the first place was just to say "Hey, we're affected by this too." I know I have said this before, but Saddam has been killing there for years - for his own personal reasons. We aren't TARGETING civilians. Unfortunate accidents and the like happen. It is truly sad, but hopefully the Iraqi lives that have been lost in this war will pave the way for a new, free Iraq (hopefully). Then, maybe their lives won't have been lost in vain - as has been the case.

any non-americans?


:rolleyes: Same crap, different day. I am so sick of this. I haven't attacked any person on this board's country, and still I get this. I am tempted to say something to that, but for now I'll just go ahead and be the bigger person.

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Postby txnchick » Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:02 pm

When people say SHussein would have killed more than we are killing now, I feel to an extent it's a cop-out. Murder is murder, no matter whose doing it. It's as if people are implying some have a license to destroy lives, whilst others don't. It's a dangerous double standard.


I'm fairly certain that this statement was directed at me, but if not, oh well. He has ALREADY killed more people than we're killing now. It's not a cop-out, it's a TRUTH. I'm not saying that it's right that civilians are killed in war, but that is what ultimately happens. It's been that way since the beginning of time.

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Postby Milla » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:27 pm

no, it was not crap. not crap at all. sorry if "non-americans" offended you.
and don't worry. i'm sure adriana's comment wasn't only directed at only you .

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Postby Milla » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:31 pm

i consider myself anti-Shussein. and i know that he killed many people and what not. but does that give america the excuse to kill what can and might be the same amount of people because they want to take him out?

and please, i beg of all of you people, no nitpicking on crap like "non-americans" and grammar, it just wastes space. everybody has their own side. does anyone agree that we should respect one's point of view even if it bugs you? if it offends you, then feel free to comment. but let's no start another grammar and typo mini war. :lol:

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Postby Milla » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:34 pm

ADRIANA_A wrote:
I also found CNN rather irritating, simple solution - switch off :headbanger:


ditto. :lol:

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:01 am

I'm fairly certain that this statement was directed at me


Not really.....the comment that I cited has been used in abundance by other people so it was more of a general remark.

Bottom line - killing is wrong. That's I stance I won't budge from. And before you all go on with the usual 'saddam has been killing loads as well' - this I am more than aware of . His killing can't be justified, and neither can anyone else's. It's really that simple.

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Postby txnchick » Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:30 am

and please, i beg of all of you people, no nitpicking on crap like "non-americans" and grammar, it just wastes space. everybody has their own side. does anyone agree that we should respect one's point of view even if it bugs you? if it offends you, then feel free to comment. but let's no start another grammar and typo mini war.  


That was my point about the "non-americans" statement. It showed a complete lack of respect for the American point of view. Nobody started a grammar or typo war. You may not be bothered by the statement, but I was, and I felt free to comment about it. :D

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Postby lancesgrl » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:24 am

ADRIANA_A wrote: His killing can't be justified, and neither can anyone else's. It's really that simple.

despite what you may think, i too believe that killing is wrong. honestly, i do. but i guess i'm really interested in what exactly you think would have been a better alternative. i'm not trying to be ugly here, but we just keep playing tug-o-war with this whole issue and no one really has any other feasible alternate solution as to how saddam could've been taken down without some sort of action that would involve casualties -- military and/or civilian.

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Postby txnchick » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:29 am

Amen sister! :clap:

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Postby Milla » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:30 pm

yes, does anyone else have any other ways to solve such problem? *sarcasm* because this problem is sooooo severe, and it is affecting our life every single moment, *sarcasm*

shaunt, where are you? lise, come join me.



and "non-americans" was not meant to affend you, let me rephrase it:" any people who are from american descent and can speak only one language and don't depend on american media wholey for news" better?

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Postby heloise » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:34 pm

well, I would but I'm too imature for speak well :rolleyes: and for the moment, i'm too tiredto read these post, i'll read them later, promise:kiss:

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Postby txnchick » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:45 pm

Here's something for some of you to take a look at. I will warn you - it's pretty graphic, and I don't know how many of you want to see images like this.

kdp.pp.se/chemical.htmlHalabja

This is mainly for Heloise who's always looking for proof that he has chemical weapons.

And another question for all of you -

If he hasn't aided terrorists and he doesn't have chemical weapons - where are all of the unaccounted for chemical and biological weapons?

Waiting for your input.

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Postby lancesgrl » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:50 pm

milla.... i just don't get you at all, unless, of course, there are THREE of you in one body. :confused: one minute you are telling me (athletes board) that my debating isn't so bad and can we be friends.... you infer that we all should debate in the most friendly way possible, without insults and sarcasm... then here you go with a comment like this!

yes, does anyone else have any other ways to solve such problem? *sarcasm* because this problem is sooooo severe, and it is affecting our life every single moment, *sarcasm*


you have me totally confused... you really do. if you would have even attempted to try and read my post in a neutral tone... which, incidentally, is the way it was intended to be read... you wouldn't have responded in the manner that you did. i wasn't trying to be sarcastic. it was a VALID QUESTION! i asked because we've all been wrestling with this topic for SO long, that i was genuinely interested in what another option would be!!!

good god!! shame on you people! it is time that you admit to yourself that a lot of the arguments we're having, all of the sarcasm and ultimate fighting is due to people reading things into these posts!

milla, would you once and for all decide where you are coming from here? are you going to debate civilly, or are you going to change your mind with the wind direction and attack others instead of mentioning anything remotely constructive?

you think about and just feel free to let us know. :rolleyes:

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Postby lancesgrl » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:53 pm

i have so much to say about what you posted, txnchick.... i didn't see that post before i added mine. i'm just going to let this sink in -- for me and for everyone else.

wow. just.... wow. :no:

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Postby heloise » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:58 pm

thanks for the link! but by the way: march 1988 ! i knwo, in 1988, there were arm,, but in 2003, i'm not sure...

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Postby txnchick » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:07 pm

My question is: What do you think happened to the weapons? Where do you think they "disappeared" to?

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:46 pm

Question txnchick: if america is so persistent that he has them - why hasn't he used them in this war? If there was ever anytime he needed to use them, it would be NOW. But seeing as you've all got the answers, explain to me please :rolleyes:

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Postby txnchick » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:30 pm

Why would he want to use them now and prove us RIGHT? Until we find them, we look like the bad guys and he's got the support of the rest of the world.

Or maybe we took out their ability to get to the weapons in the initial bomb strikes.

There are several possibilities.

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Postby Milla » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:16 pm

i don't have time right now, but i would just like to say that no, i haven't gone mad, and i have more to say about that site and sruff. toodles!


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