Message To U*s*a

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WHITE-POWER
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Postby WHITE-POWER » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:40 am

You americans are funny…and I don’t mean to just look at.

Let me tell you the truth about yourselves….

Your attempt to belittle the intelligence of us more cultured and clued up non-yankie doodle dos, by quoting formulaic bullsh** that comes from government-regulated talking shops like CNN and attempt to pass that off as proof of your knowledge, makes me positively piss with laughter in my more fashionable pants. You probably wouldn’t even be able to find Iraq on a map.

The fact is, you’re popularity outside of this country lies only with a minority of people. did you all miss the worldwide protests??? Millions upon million of civilians were burning your flag in streets up and down Britain, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Spain, Greece, Ireland, China, Brazil, Russia, Turkey etc etc (but I guess that’s the selective knowledge theory that was being talked about )…..big deal if some of their weak governments support you. They don’t reflect their people in the slightest. The majority of them, if not all, were bullied, bribed and blinded into supporting your pathetic excuse for world domination. And so what if some non-americans pundits do support your cause – they’re all sellouts and we’d happy for you to take them off our hands.

It’s amazing how, NOW you’re all quick to cite the 3 million that Hussein killed but back then, your bleating irritating drawls couldn’t be heard. You didn’t even concern yourselves with it. There were no street protests going on begging your government to take action for ‘liberation’. You never condemned the gassing of the Iranians and Kurds when it happened,(that’s probably because you helped him do it). Consequently, none of this was convenient back then for you and your corrupt media. Saddam was your buddy. You needed to keep him sweet. But as already mentioned: it’s what suits you at the time. And once it’s convenient for you yanks, you expect the whole world and his wife to follow suit. This talk of caring about the world is full of sh**, much like the americans themselves

And so bloody what if France didn’t go to war because it wasn’t in their interest; you all went to war because it WAS in your interest – same difference. Same goes for Germany and Russia. Not all nations believe in your twisted ideas of how violence solves everything….some of us would like to advance further than that and take the higher road. France and others reflected their nations. God bless them. Your reaction to what they did was in direct contradiction of all the bullsh** values you all claim to be about – independence, democracy, - But then again that’s all you americans do - talk, talk, talk, talk, And then if talking doesn’t work, either you’ll go round kicking the sh** out of everyone, give yourselves useless makeovers or more than likely sue. I’ve seen your classy talk shows, yep you really are a civilised nation(!)….

Let’s cut the bull and be honest: You don’t actually give a damn about other nations unless they are made up of yes-men and puppets. Then funnily enough, you all get fed up with the ‘imperialistic theories’ . Your fright of losing the saddam style- iron grip that you want to have on other nations is desperate yet comical. We know about the bullying that goes on in the UN. This ‘coalition of the willing’ is made up of nothing but countries intimidated at the ramifications of not assisting your demon empire. Promises of wiping away debt, threats of sanctions and general bullying is how your warmongering nation managed to get support. You cannot stand it when a country turns around and gives you all the much-needed middle finger. We all know you sh** yourselves over China – hence the numerous spy planes you send over. But don’t worry, your reign will end one day. Every dog has its day.

Furthermore, I love the way you all select the laws that suit you and dismiss those that don’t. Your criticism of Iraq’s breach of the Geneva convention being a great example :-

- Firstly, your own breaching is apparent in Guatanamo Bay. They may not be official POWs (your refusal to provide them with that immunity is because they didn’t have a uniform on . Hey, maybe they couldn’t afford one!) However, by default, they should then be classified as criminal suspects. In that case, they should be tried in a criminal court not shackled, gagged and blinded. Either way, it’s illegal and illegitimate. But as per usual, you don’t concern yourselves with the facts.

- Secondly, the yanks paraded the Iraqi soldiers FIRST in Basra desert complete with close up shots of their faces. After that, it became tit for tat, but you started the parade games first.

- Thirdly, your entire shoddy war is in breach of international law. So your attempt to cite any kind of law at this stage is a joke.

- Lastly, what exactly are you going to do to the Iraqis for breaching????? Punish them???? How will you bright sparks manage to do that given you’ve already invaded and destroyed their nation??

Your miserable corrupt self-involved nation never even signed up to the war criminal treaty but yet you expect everyone else to be held accountable for criminal behaviour. Hypocrites. Here’s a new flash – war is nothing but an asylum run by criminals. As a warmongering nation, you should be aware of that. So why you choose to bring the principles of international law into it is beyond me.

You probably haven’t even bothered reading the entire white paper regarding the convention anyway, rather selected those paragraphs that suit you. This disregard for international law isn’t doing you cretins any favours you know. And again, you’d probably struggle finding Geneva on the map.

(If you’ve reached this point of my message, WELL DONE, give yourselves a much-deserved cookie, your concentration span’s longer than I thought)

However, you’ve declared war simply to make somebody, anybody pay for that thing that happened in Sept – I think it was called KARMA - , without a shred of evidence. According to your own polls, the majority of you believe the hijackers were mainly from Iraq! (BTW they were Saudi Arabian – with BinL also being Saudi and with the main al-quaeda network being situated in Saudi Arabia, which explains why you bombed Afghanistan(!) Anything to do with ‘that pipeline’? Either that or your Geography skills need the same immediate improvement as your Historical knowledge)
Your desperate effort to throw evidence together was the greatest show I ever saw at the UN. But like every spoilt brat, you got your own way in the end. Well, my support for the British troops is simply because I feel sorry for the fact that they’ve had to put up with useless americans for the past 3 weeks. Must be tough. All that whining, cowboy behaviour, incompetence, and dumbing down conversation must start to grate after a while.
Most of Our soldiers died because your inadequate boys can’t even manage to fly helicopters and aim properly. And you’re right when you say no one cared about the deaths of american soldiers, we couldn’t give a f*** – probably because they ended up killing themselves with their own weapons – over here that’s we call COMEDY. All the americans are doing is bombing….and not very efficiently. The British are being left to tidy up YOUR mess. They’re the ones bringing some order to the usual chaos the americans create whenever they do bother to move their fat arses out of their country. We’re positively propping you up over there. But I’m sure your media and the future history books will tell different……

Speaking of which, stop stamping your feet, quit with your tantrums and book yourselves in for some extra history lessons and find out exactly what France did for you (in my opinion France shouldn’t have bothered with your moaning ungrateful arses and should’ve just left you all to die.). If it weren’t for the French and their intervention during the revolutionary war, you would all still be under the rule of the British!! Your country wouldn’t have even reached as far as it has today and you wouldn’t even be in a position to brag about the delusions you have of your country. .

Anyway, your recent hatred of France is futile – you’ll all be over in your droves come Cannes Festival time, kissing bum, in a pathetic attempt to gain credibility as decent actors.

Oh and while you’re at it, take bush and rumsfeld with you to those history lessons. Their lack of knowledge is not funny anymore. Their schoolboy tantrums, are cringing and inbred rumsfeld should really quit his snarling, huffing, and puffing. His amnesia seems to have worsened over the years… . I say bring back euthanasia.
Both of them are the best joke that america made. Bush is nothing but a stooge for the main body that runs your country: the oil industry. Your entire government has fraud written over it. It’s a country that is being run by a bunch of criminal lunatics and fundamental thugs who use the Bible to justify their violent actions (looks like you’ve all got more in common with Bin laden than you thought).
Your country is a known terrorising nation itself although you prefer to label it freedom fighting. If you’re all going to speculate Saddam’s links with terrorist groups so will I. I hold your country responsible for all the IRA attacks we’ve suffered for decades. So should we come over and remove your government who has harboured them????? Should we kill innocent american women and children as a compensation for our deaths? Should we reduce your entire nation to rubble? So what if there’s no conclusive proof – it hasn’t stopped you lot. But I guess we could always make up the evidence; citizens are stupid after all, they’ll just believe anything their manufactured news programmes and corrupt governments tell them. You hicks should know that considering you’re living proof of it.
The way in which the yanks have awarded themselves contracts for rebuilding Iraq is further proof of corporate corruption. It’s tantamount to an undertaker bombing a family and then offering the survivors a ‘good deal’ on the funerals.
And the very fact that the bush admin has publicly come out and informed us how oil is central to their plans for post-war Iraq should provide a clue. However you all deny these only-in-it for-oil accusations as conspiracy theories with no proof. Well you all think Saddam was behind 9/11 – which is also a conspiracy theory with no proof. So you’re allowed to make assumptions but we’re not??? This is all about oil – you’ll make sure you get your fair share one way or the other. Believe me but then maybe you village folk need it spelling out for you in capital double spaced letters.

Your true colours came out when the statue was pulled down, and I have heard many lame excuses about how ‘yes, but we took the flag down immediately because we didn’t want people to think this was about dominance…..whine, whine……’’ …. Well people did and always have done anyway. But because you americans are so embarrassingly stupid and are unable to engage brain and action at the same time, you managed to pull off a pre-mediated stunt that brought a knowing smile to many faces. And even so, it was the Iraqis booing your tatty flag that made you realise…..nothing to do with you actually realising for yourselves. But then we can’t expect you to think on your own now can we….that would be asking way too much.
Just wait and see…… a few months from now. Those Iraqis will be in for a shock. The new ‘liberated Iraq’ will be the new Saudi Arabia - nothing but another american design ran by the americans for the betterment of the americans. Your economy will be resuscitated by a transfusion of oil, courtesy of Iraqi blood. The fact that Jay Garner and his israeli loving c*** has been appointed head of plans for an interim post-war government speaks volumes You’ll deny that’s the intention as you don’t realise it yet, but as usual, americans need many years before they can catch up with the rest of the world.

So here’s some advice: why don’t you put down your krispy kremes, prise those oreo cookies out from your fat fingers and wake up and smell the starbucks coffee??? Blind patriotism does exactly that….makes you blind. It’s tough being dumb, even tougher having bad hair, but do you want to be blind on top of it??????

The truth is your country was founded on terrorism with ALL of you as nothing but illegal immigrants; you’ve managed to terrorise and discriminate everyone that stepped onto your zionistic-nazi supporting land and piss on their heritage. Let’s face it, the only threat to america, is americans themselves. You’re all either going to eat yourselves to death, or shoot yourselves with your own guns.
You expect the whole world to be grateful for all you’ve apparently done for us but refuse to acknowledge our help and will only do so under duress. Your criticism is always reserved for us overseas – try looking in your own homes first.
No one really takes you seriously anyway, your country is just like a bad american film: all talk, superficial action, bullsh** rhetoric and no plot, dialogue or characters with substance. You’re just perceived as a country full of popcorn brainless yobs with mickey mouse and his family your cultural heroes.
However, in your defense, your hidden jealousy of Europe and the rest of the world is understood. I would be too if I were a product of your comical national ‘education’ system or simply just a member of your positively out-of-touch culture-less cesspit of a nation. You really cramp our style.

The only tragic thing about 9/11 is that Bin Laden and his boys didn’t destroy your entire gluttonous land. The only way this world will ever be at peace and when all the hatred and anger disappears is when your junk-nation is finally annihilated off the world map.

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heloise
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Postby heloise » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:54 am

WELCOME :D

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goshawty
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Postby goshawty » Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:25 am

Well,I'm not american but I've been living in this country for a while.Just wanna let you know that not all americans have that mentality and putting everybody in the same category is very ignorant of you.

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ADRIANA_A
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Postby ADRIANA_A » Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:37 pm

Agree with goshawty -although i agree with a quite a few points, remeber the majority of Americans do not think like Bush, thank god or necessarily support the war.

but in light of that anti-French post, i'm assuming this post was targetted at the pro-Bush clan?

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Postby DarkDance » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:00 pm

Humm, let's see - you're a group of adolescents bonded by spelling /:huh: grammatical dyslexia , latent
lesbian tendencies :lick: and a perpetual state of PMS. :splat:

Suddenly this "White Power" freak comes to Abstracts
:newbie: (a celebrity gossip site) and the first thing 'she' posts is this rambling bit of political b*llsh*t, :crazy: which does NOT contain spelling or grammatical errors
:shocked: and which 'she' apparently claims credit for having written. :nono:

Ok ......
:thinking:
Now here's the problem, what are you going to do when this "White Power" alias you invented has to respond to this and everything she writes is miss spelled gibberish? :freaked:

You could get your mommy :moo: to edit your stuff before you post it I guess,
:shrug: I'm just wondering if your mommies are any less dyslexic than their :nerd: 'girls'.

PS. I'm not going to waste my time responding to the b*llsh*t you copy / pasted here, the whining :picknose:
idiot who actually wrote it doesn't even know it's posted here.
:laughup: :laughup: :laughup:

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goshawty
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Postby goshawty » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:41 pm

well,the fact that her post does not contain any spelling or grammatical errors doesnt mean anything because she can be from australia,canada or the uk.still...... looks like it was written by somebody else,since the author wouldnt spend his/her time posting it on a CELEBRITY GOSSIP message board.
;)

basically, white power you're just lame.and what the heck is that user name all about?? do your support white supremacie or something?? kkk much?? eh?? just leave,please.... <_<

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txnchick
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Postby txnchick » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:32 am

The fact is, you’re popularity outside of this country


I just had to refute the no spelling/grammatical error argument, since we went there. That's not really the point, though.

I don't know what happened to people being able to express their opinions and debate in a civil manner without resorting to insults (weak ones at that) and stereotypes.

If the poster had actually made a point, I would respond with an argument/reply/whatever, but this is all I have to say for now.

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Claire
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Postby Claire » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:16 am

goshawty wrote: Just wanna let you know that not all americans have that mentality ...


Yeah, I know what you mean here. I also know a lot of Americans and they're great people. I just hope that this people the poster here talks about are minority.

Actually I have noticed that Americans are quite eager to express opinions on politics and to participate in such activities. Is this usual? I mean, are you obligated to belong to one of the political groups and to have a formed opinion? :shrug: How is it in America?

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WHITE-POWER
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Postby WHITE-POWER » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:19 am

Darkdance – you must be one of those funny americans I was referring to. :headbanger:

Thanks for spending all your yankie time in checking my post for grammatical errors. Didn’t know you cared so much. And I didn’t need my mum to double-check my piece of art. You must be mistaking me for an american.

You americans really do stun me with your arguments. I’m positively crapping myself(!) . If all you have to react with is………

you're a group of adolescents bonded by spelling / grammatical dyslexia , latent lesbian tendencies and a perpetual state of PMS.
:nana: :nana:

then you’re even lamer than I thought (God, I love it when I’m right). The truth of the matter is my post presented many valid points, but none of you have any answers to it, simply because you just don’t know enough to respond. That’s what you get for being a bush loving’ american. Your response isn’t verbal – it’s always physical; and when it is verbal, it’s so predictable and manufactured that it isn’t even worth scrutinising.

So what if I posted on a celebrity gossip board – really, you make things more complex than they need to be. :rolleyes: I realise you need to feel a lot more intelligent than you are, but don’t bother wasting your time. And so what if my spelling and grammar were almost perfect. That’s what you get when you are a product of a superior education system like the United Kingdom. I can imagine you in your little pit with no friends, struggling to read, trying to make yourself feel important by piecing clues together to work out my identity. Again didn’t know you cared. But it’s sad very sad. But you are american. It’s to be expected. :shrug:

My posting on here was simply random . It’s a celebrity gossip board: that’s where I’d imagine dead brain americans would hang out. Perfect target audience.

I don’t want to rain on your parade darkdance. I can imagine you were excited at the thought of a group of girly girls congregating together to ‘copy and paste’. Times are dry and hard. You’ve got to grab at whatever you can get. But it couldn’t be further from the truth. I am an Englishman representative of a rather large male and female gathering if you must know. We’re simply not impressed with america’s mission to destabilise the world without evidence. I see Syria’s next on the hitlist – why don’t you just do all us a favour and admit that the real plan is to take out the entire Middle East?? Oh and by the way, Powell is right when he says there are weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East. They’re in Israel. Go fetch.

And I admit – as a male, I do have lesbian tendencies. :shrug:

In all honesty, your responses are boring, pathetic and predictable – much like americans themselves.
I bet you’re all members of True Love Waits/Can’t Get Laid, or other classy so-called religious bullsh** yankie clubs. :D
If the truth beknown, the turd I just dropped in my toilet is worth more than your hillbilly manufactured opinions.

As for the Non-amercian/European sell-outs – go pack your bags and bugger off to the united states of whatever…..and if you’re already there, stay there. The yankiee empire will come crashing down one day and you’ll all go crumbling down with it. Good riddance.
You don’t realise it but the yanks are a bunch of selfish people. I wonder how many of these 'armchair war supporters' will be personally putting their hands in their pockets for the civilians they claim to care about so much. :rolleyes:

just leave,please


Why should I leave? Because you don’t like my opinion. Ironic. Isn’t that what we’re liberating Iraqi people for? So that they can say what they want when they want how they want without being ostracised? So freedom for Iraq but gagging for us? Another double standard!!

don't know what happened to people being able to express their opinions and debate in a civil manner without resorting to insults.


tell that to your own patriots with their anti-French retorts and actions as well as to your fellow inbred darkdance. Honestly, you americans and your double standards – you get better and better everyday.

(weak ones at that)


Not at all and you know it miss :)

and stereotypes


Learned how to stereotype thanks to america and those great films(!)… :thinking:

Americans are quite eager to express opinions on politics and to participate in such activities. Is this usual?


Please! Only when it suits them. They ordinarily don’t give a damn if it doesn’t affect them. The fact that you’ve asked this suggests it anyway.

How is it in America?


Dumb and self-centred. I wonder if they’ve opened up their hospitals for dying Iraqi children yet or is that just the UK doing it? I wonder if they’ve managed to invest enough money into protecting those hospitals and medical camps in Iraq or is that just going towards protecting the oilfields like I saw on the news this morning? Honestly, americans are getting dumber and dumber every day.

basically, white power you're just lame.


By your admission: ‘I’m not american but I've been living in this country for a while’

Now that’s lame my lost friend :no:

and what the heck is that user name all about?? do your support white supremacie or something?? [/QUOTE]

No supremacy – just irony. :rolleyes:

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Milla
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Postby Milla » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:09 pm

WHITE-POWER wrote: I see Syria’s next on the hitlist – why don’t you just do all us a favour and admit that the real plan is to take out the entire Middle East?? Oh and by the way, Powell is right when he says there are weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East. They’re in Israel. Go fetch.


i could kiss you right now. thank the lord for sensible people.Good job, white power. me, being palestinian, have tried to pass these points across (in a shorter way :P ), but there are some serious assholes here who do not really give a f-u-c-k ;) . i have given up, and i can tell you that your first post is great, and enough. take this post as an advanced warning about a few certain people who no one can convince that war on iraq is not the best solution.

and yeah, yeah, there are americans who are good and i have no objection to that. but seriously, 70 percent of the american people bush-ass kissers. face it. and for the whole period i've been at abstracts, i have tried to not say anything about the americans themselves, but just concentrate on the government-driven media. i hope cnn, msnbc, the israeli-zionist fox news, and all the major newspapers like new york times and stuff go to hell. i pray they go to hell. they shove crap into innocent peoples' heads. the american people are not bad, but their media is evil. :D

and yes, that was all super-bias and what not, but truly, i don't care anymore, just as people like darkdance don't care.


white-power (sarcasm?), welcome to abstracts. and don't leave. there just might be hope for this site in the area of politics.on behalf of heloise and shaunt, welcome, welcome, welcome. ;)

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:30 am

Whitepower,

Like I said , alot of points you made in both your posts were excellent- don't expect them to be answered though :lol: some can't hand le the truth round here :lol:

And I hope you weren't targetting me and goshawty with ypour european sell out comment. For I certainly am not. I , like most non-Americans, have my criticisms of the nation (which apparently translates into hate :confused: ). But there are some positive things about America. I agree when Milla says their media is f - up. Many newsbroadcasters (particulrly pro-Israeli) have been told firmly not to report in such a way that might present the facts in an impartial way. Remeber what W said: 'you're either with us, or against us,' and so he's gonn make damn sure his media is with him!!!

I'm not about to criticise you too much - considering darkdance was for the most part appeased when he put his anti-French bullsh** up.

And I too am glad Syria was mentioned. I see W called them a 'rogue state' whereas Jack Straw and the entire British govt. refused to back that up.

The fcat is Womd have not been found. It's now a case of lining up countries who he could've smuggled them into. :thinking: All part of the plan America has. Bush made it quite clear post-9/11 that America had a plan. They haven't even found Bin Laden yet or liberated Palestinian people yet, so why they want to go into nations an cause a ruckus for no reason is confusiing to say the least.

but truly, i don't care anymore, just as people like darkdance don't care.


I support you on that girl :kiss:


Oh and by the way, Powell is right when he says there are weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East. They’re in Israel. Go fetch.


:headbanger: Excellent, just excellent!

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WHITE-POWER
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Postby WHITE-POWER » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:20 am

the american people are not bad


:lol: Quit with the diplomacy. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. america's blind acceptance of bush and lack of action to question their government more, speaks volumes.

some can't hand le the truth round here


Quite apparent. :D

There is just as many crappy newspapers in Europe and outside of america generally - the difference is we're not sucked in by them. I don't get my opinions quoting sh**ty cnn/fox newspolls. The yankee doodle-dos on these board don't know anything about anything. They have probably only recently learned of Halabja an event that was positively ignored by them when it happened. Their pathetic attempt to post this to try and look as if they actually know what they’re talking about is transparent. :D

Rather than re- informing us about it, they don’t question their government and their role in it. :shrug: It's apparently our fault!!!

The fact is, America is to blame, as is the British Empire quite admittedly, for most of the misgivings in the world. We all know how Pakistan and India has come to the point that it has today. But rather than educating and investigating, it’s easier for yanks to say:

‘they’re jealous of our freedom….. :nana: :nana: whine, whine, whine, whine’

All those hijackers were from rich privileged backgrounds, al-quaeda is made up of people that have more money than I’d know what to do with it. They have more freedom than you know.
It is america who insists on infringing the freedom of people abroad through unjustified sanctions and illegal land occupation as well as supporting others in illegal occupation, whilst lecturing the rest of us about the importance of freedom. They want it for themselves, but not for others. You see, maybe if they lot travelled a bit more, they’d realise this. :rolleyes:

Bin laden isn’t jealous of your freedom, that dude could’ve easily sold himself down the yank river and set himself a nice playboy lifestyle over there in the land of the misinformed. He could’ve had it easy: as a violent man, he would’ve fitted in perfectly. :lol: But instead he chose to live in a cave and allude to his political beliefs whilst being disowned by his family. His religious rhetoric may be bullsh**, but what’s he saying that bible bush hasn’t been saying recently???????? As a Christian, he makes me laugh out loud. His 'adherence' to his religion is worse than the ones he wants to remove!

The double standards of the yanks when it comes to who should abide by UN regulations is scandalous. The yanks on these boards are quick to mention Saddam’s defiance of UN law, conveniently forgetting their own and israel’s. When asked about it, they won’t even entertain the idea. They’ll just gloss over it. :huh:

Make no mistake: america’s biggest fear is losing their power. Why would they want to help any nation become powerful and risk themselves? (Apart from israel – which is an extension of america anyway.) The new govt of Iraq will be full of Iraqi puppets who will be nothing but pussy-whipped by the yanks. Of course the americans won’t literally be in Iraq – that would be too obvious, but their control of that country will be indirect but very dominant. It will be a friend to israel and I’m sure will be more than generous once oil contracts come about. :rolleyes:

Respect to saddam for being the only one who actually scared the isarelis and yanks :headbanger:

Lord knows that he isn’t the only tyrant. But’s he’s not white and Muslim to boot, so I guess he just had to go. :lol: I guess it's only white-Jews that are entiled to weapons of mass destruction. Even more so when they're using them to destroy Palestinian babies.

I still say 9/11 was the greatest show on earth. Taste of their own medicine. :beerchug:

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Postby laura l » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:07 pm

:clap: :clap: :clap: to W-P, Adriana, and Milla's posts.

Quit with the diplomacy. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

BS. That's just as wrong as Bush's "with us or against us". I agree with Milla the media is the f***ing problem, along with the educational system, and of course the government.
The American media can't be called biased, it's even worse: they give you a piece of news the way they want you to get it. They tell you who to support, who to hate, when to applaud, when to cry, when to say "aww" and so on and so forth. It's like being part of The Tonight Show audience and having that chap waving his cardboard with your reaction written on it. "Justin and Britney break up" [awwwww] ....."France's Chirac says he will veto any new Resolution" [arrgggghhhh] ........ "Tiger Woods wins again" [applause].
If the American government was more concerned by education they would invest in it more than they invest in war. If only their system was a bit better there would be more people capable of replying properly on this board. More of them could have an opinion of their own, and not reply the same manufactured sh** they heard on TV. And don't get me started on CNN and FOX. I remember one morning I switched TV on, and all over the news there were talks about this British soldier killed by and American pilot. The survivors of the accident denounced the US pilot's "Cow-boy" attitude and how he had no regard for human life. As I said it was all over the news, so my flatmate and I checked CNN and Fox websites there was absolutely no mention of it. FOX posted it 24h later as minor news, and CNN never bothered. So they remember the UK only when they need to (?)

I don't think being diplomatic is the problem. I really appreciate that you reply to some of them with the same sarcasm, and I have to admit you really crack me up :lol: but I still believe the "an eye for an eye" method leads nowhere.

However, you're most welcome to this board. I see you've been away from the board for a while, hope to see you round there soon. ;)

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Postby Milla » Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:16 pm

hey lise! i'm back! and since i took a break from this site, i have had just a little more time to educate myself further!(one can never be too educated. ;) ) n e ways.....yes. yes. yes. finally. the board and the whole general section isn't overpopulated with close-minded americans.
god answered my prayers. :lol: i'm not serious, as in, i didn't really pray for that. seriously. i actually have a life!



hey! hey! hey! for all those who read with out whispering the words under their breath! i have a good book i heard and read about!

It's called : Israelis and Palestinians for beginners! a child could read this! and equally, a 34 yr old american-born american can read this! if they just tried hard enough! :lol:

but i have to warn you all.......it is very straight forward. and more surprisingly, not to me, though, is that the author, Ron David, is jewish!
he is soooooo cool! and anti-ariel sharon! oh my god, i could not believe my eyes when i read the short, confirmed and justified words he wrote! this man used to be an israeli-follower, and then he actually started reading, and he changed his mind completely! i was talking to myself the whole time, saying things like,"take that!", and "naaneenaaneenaaaaaanee! kiss my ass, believers of the media!"


goodbye. i would like to imform you all that these are the last of my posts. rarely will i post here. i shall not contribute any of my precious knowledge to any conversation about politics or the sharon-clones, because i have noted, abserved, and concluded that it is a complete and total waste of my finger and eye energy. and i don't care what all the americans say. kiss my ass, all you under-educated, fox news-poisened, pieces if sh**! only a few of you are worth making friends with! like that rachel cory, who got ran over purposely by a bulldozer by the israelis. i knew her. i had talked to her once, and she was a kind soul. god bless her.


yep! goodbye!

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Thu May 01, 2003 7:00 am

I heard about Rachel :no: But what happeend to her is typical of what the Israeli soldiers are doing.

I went to Palestine as part of the ISM (international solidarity movement) last Christmas. 3 of my friends were shot in the legs ....... you know why? Because they were trying to shelter a group of Palestinian kids (aged 6 -10) from Israeli gunfire. Palestinian children and families were dragged out of their homes by their hair and with hostile weapons and ccused of being terrrorists. The scenes in Jenin and other Palestinian terrotories were ones reminiescent of the holocaust - how ironic.

But you never hear all that on Fox do ya???!! :D

Milla : bless you, there are many on your side. the only reason they don't speak out is because there is this fear put in people that they well be labelled 'anti-Semitic'. The same prinicple seems to be applying to those who don't agree with America's actions - we're automatically 'anti-american' . Funny, when some Blacks assume that those that don't agree with them are 'racists', they are immediately accused of 'playing the race card' as well as Muslims who quite rightfullly assume that this aggression they're facing is 'anti-islamic' but they're all dismissed as simpletons...... strange that.

It seems that certain groups of people are entitled to play their own cards when it suits them, but certain others aren't.

Peace Milla x

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Postby laura l » Fri May 02, 2003 4:12 pm

Uh....who's Rachel :thinking:

I didn't know about your friends being shot, that just shows how hypocrit the Israeli government - and I said government(!!!) - if they were actually trying to stop terrorism - and they are absolutely right to do so - they would not be firing at kids and foreigners!!!!

After the suicide bombing in the night club the other day I was watching the news, and the Israeli ambassador was being breifly interviewed. He was saying that terrorists were targetting innocent civilians whereas the Israeli army was just tracking down terrorists. First, what you've just said Adriana proves them wrong, but we'll never hear about your friends or anyone else in the news. Second, the journalist asked him if the Israeli gvmt thought that the killing of a young Palestinian (right after the suicide bombing) would manage to convince the Muslims that they are sincere. Do you think he bothered answering!!!! Basically he said, that happens in every war, some civilians are hurt blah blah blah.......I'm not a war expert, but I don't think dragging women by the hair and shooting a 12 year old (even if that very 12 year old is throwing STONES at your TANK) solves any problem. Plus, I don't call it a war. A war involves two armies facing one another. What I see is an army occupying a territory outside the boundaries of teh country which it belongs to. Stop me when I'm wrong.
Also, the Israeli governement said Britain should stop being so anti-Israeli......ahem, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but those nutcases are referred to as "Muslim British" so this to me will just increase hatred towards the WHOLE Muslim community in Britain. So basically, he was promoting anti-Muslim attitude. "Don't hate us, hate them!" ......The Israeli government, and the Israeli people who vote for them, should bear in mind that suicide bombing will not stop so long as Israeli occupation does not come to an end. On the other hand, it's time Palestinians realised that extremist leaders want them no good, and violence is not the key......[even if AMerica and Israel keep proving the contrary] ........It's in everyone's interest to put an end to it. I believe that if the Israelo-Palestinian conflict comes to an end, a lot of terrorism will stop. Most Muslims if not all support and feel for the palestinian people, know what I mean...

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Fri May 02, 2003 6:15 pm

who's Rachel


Peace protestor who went to Palestine and was ran over and murdered by an Israeli tank ........... nice of them to welcome her in the usual Israeli tradition hey? :heartbreaker:

but we'll never hear about your friends or anyone else in the news.


This is the problem - and you don't need to be a genuis to work out WHO owns the media companies and newspapers in America :thinking:

What I see is an army occupying a territory outside the boundaries of teh country which it belongs to


Exactly. This is in direct breach of UN regulations...... it is causing the death of many Palestinians....but funnily enough we don't (or should i say america) express the same impatience with Ariel Sharon as they did with Saddam. Maybe because Sharon ain't a Muslim? :thinking:

Muslim British" so this to me will just increase hatred towards the WHOLE Muslim community in Britain


It's all part of the plan - to drag down the name of Islam as much as possible. Both Blair and Bush are Christians .... funny how their religion doesn't get stigmatised. Funny how the IRA are referred to as just terrorists and not 'Catholic terrorists' ...... funny how Israeli occupation isn't labelled 'Jewish terrorism' in fact... israelis are considered freedom fighters because obviously they are suffering so much right now(!)

Also, the Israeli governement said Britain should stop being so anti-Israeli


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Here we go again, the Israeli government whinging about how no-one supports them!!!!!! F*U*C*K OFF! All I see is support for this arrogant nation. Our media , not to mention the american media, supports this nation UNCONDITIONALLY. They're still persistent in making us all believe they're still suffering to this day!

I believe that if the Israelo-Palestinian conflict comes to an end, a lot of terrorism will stop


This can only happen once America makes Israel tow the line with the UN as much as it insists everyone else does. And this includes abiding by the UN themselves.

Most Muslims if not all support and feel for the palestinian people, know what I mean...


Add many other religions to that list. There is much sympathy for these people who have suffered a huge historical injustice. But like I said, 'Palestinian sympathiser' automatically means 'anti-Semite' just in the same way 'anti-war' apparently means 'anti-American.' so people aren't as reluctant as to express themselves about it. We're living in a world in which our govts, particularly America's, are forcing us to conform to their way of thinking and to abandon any opinions or queries we have.

BTW,From now on, all those who are 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-war' are in my opinion 'anti-Islamic' ..... asme principle that's being applied to us.

On the other hand, it's time Palestinians realised that extremist leaders want them no good, and violence is not the key


Agree with this point. however, Israel and America have shown violence is the way to solve conflict so why should Palestinins choose to be different? I believe either way, diplomacy or violence, Palestinians will never be liberated. Their's is a cause that America and Israel aren't 100% committed to. They know and we know it.

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Postby laura l » Fri May 02, 2003 6:57 pm

Peace protestor who went to Palestine and was ran over and murdered by an Israeli tank ........... nice of them to welcome her in the usual Israeli tradition hey?

:( Didn't hear of it!....must have been watching BBC that day.....I really should stick to channel 4.

funnily enough we don't (or should i say america) express the same impatience with Ariel Sharon as they did with Saddam

.....let me add "and never will". I remember a few years ago I was watching a demonstration in the US on TV and there was that banner saying "Don't let America be Israel's whore"......it was a few years ago(!)

It's all part of the plan - to drag down the name of Islam as much as possible. Both Blair and Bush are Christians .... funny how their religion doesn't get stigmatised. Funny how the IRA are referred to as just terrorists and not 'Catholic terrorists' ...... funny how Israeli occupation isn't labelled 'Jewish terrorism' in fact... israelis are considered freedom fighters because obviously they are suffering so much right now(!)

Still on the "funny" line.......funny how no one remembers how Israel first got to be created, I think, no, I'm sure, I know they also performed many bomb attacks both in Britain and in palestine, didn't Jewish extremists terrorise the Brits to get that piece of land? was it just in my books that bombs blew on the step of Westminster? Didn't they use the same terrorist means to get what they have today? .....Oh, and I was forgetting, didn't some they also use bombs agaisnt German politicians right before WWII?.......History is written by the winners, sad but true.


This can only happen once America makes Israel tow the line with the UN as much as it insists everyone else does. And this includes abiding by the UN themselves.

It seems to be going the opposite way these days. Everytime America makes a statement about Israel, it is to justify some unnjustified action performed by Israel, which usually caused a lot of damage and made the international community voice some annoyance.

Add many other religions to that list

I know, actually I think most people living outside the US feel for them. I was talking about Muslims because they are those towards whom extremist leaders turn to when they need a suicide bomber.

BTW,From now on, all those who are 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-war' are in my opinion 'anti-Islamic' ..... asme principle that's being applied to us.

OK, but I think they couldn't care less.....remember being anti-French, or anti-Muslim is ok, if not good(!)

Israel and America have shown violence is the way to solve conflict so why should Palestinins choose to be different? I believe either way, diplomacy or violence, Palestinians will never be liberated. Their's is a cause that America and Israel aren't 100% committed to. They know and we know it.

Totally agree. I can't see any reason why the US or Israel would do it now. They are ruling, they have the money, the power, the army, they have everything in their hands......I still believe in deplomacy because they almost reached it with Isaac Rabbin (spelling?) ....strangely enough he was murdered by a Jewish extremist.....Oops! have I said too much?

I think Sharon has to be ousted.


The latest:

Friday May 2, 11:39 PM


UK cameraman killed in Gaza
By Nidal al-Mughrabi


GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli forces demolishing a Palestinian home in the southern Gaza Strip have shot dead a British documentary cameraman, Israel Radio says.


It said troops failed to revive James Miller after he was hit during a night-time exchange of fire with Palestinian gunmen in Rafah, a flashpoint refugee camp on the border with Egypt.


Palestinian witnesses said the shooting was unprovoked and that Miller was shot despite identifying himself as a foreign journalist.


"We got close to the area and filmed, but we couldn't leave because an (Israeli) tank was around 100 metres (yards) from where we stood," Abdel-Rahman Abdullah, a freelance Palestinian journalist who saw the incident, told Reuters by telephone.


"We were very visible to the troops, with a white flag and 'TV' markings on our vests, but still the troops opened fire, hitting James Miller," he said.


An Israeli military source denied that any foreigners were targeted, and said troops fired only after an anti-tank missile was fired at their vehicles, causing no damage.


The Palestinian home targeted for demolition concealed a tunnel used by militants to smuggle arms from Egypt, the military source said.


A spokesman for the British embassy in Tel Aviv said he was aware of the incident but declined to give details.


Dozens of foreign journalists have fallen casualty while reporting on the Palestinian uprising for independence in the West Bank and Gaza, which erupted in September 2000.


Abdullah said Miller and two colleagues were in Rafah making a documentary on how children had been affected by the violence.

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Fri May 02, 2003 7:48 pm

QUOTE]"Don't let America be Israel's whore"......[/QUOTE]

:headbanger:

didn't Jewish extremists terrorise the Brits to get that piece of land?


Yep.

was it just in my books that bombs blew on the step of Westminster?


My books....too

Didn't they use the same terrorist means to get what they have today?


Yep, but like I said, they aren't considered terrorists. that term is only applicable to those that aren't in America's interest.

Everytime America makes a statement about Israel, it is to justify some unnjustified action performed by Israel,


Again....my belief as to why the peace process is a long way off. America and Israel want Palestine to admit their wrongdoing, but won't admit their own. I was watching 'newsnight' and an israeli MP was having a debate with a member of the Palestinian council - the israeli was going on about

.... 'Palestinians need to stop suicide bombing then we can start the peace process. it's up to them'

The Palestinian representative responded by saying....

....'true, but Israel needs to stop illegal occupation. Persistent usurption of land that never belonged to them isn't making the Palestinians feel any better.....'

The Israeli guy then started shouting and whinging whilst the Palestinian remained calm and composed.
It made me laugh because it shows just how much the israelis hate it when 'illegal occupation' is mentioned. they can't respond to it because they know they are in the wrong.

OK, but I think they couldn't care less


True.....but there's a principle involved here. I take offense to being called 'anti-semite' beause I am vocal in my support for PALESTINE. Actually SCRATCH THAT, I don't actually give a crap anymore. I can live with it.

are ruling, they have the money, the power, the army, they have everything in their hands......


This has always been a belief of mine - the biggest fear powerful countries have is losing their grip....why on earth would they want others to become powerful? Particularly those countries that they've never considered strong allies in the first place. There is no doubt that for centuries, corruption has occured in this world to get where we are now. Do you think all the Western superpowers got where they are by being 'nice guys' ????? :lol:

I still believe in deplomacy because they almost reached it with Isaac Rabbin (spelling?) ....strangely enough he was murdered by a Jewish extremist


It's Yitzak Rabin - and this is a point I've often raised. A ceasefire was about to be realised and he was KILLED BY AN ISRAELI-JEWISH EXTREMIST.....evidently, this argument that it's palestinians who don't want peace is laughable. Make no mistake, there are many jewish-extremists , I've seen it, but it's a term not used nor is it an issue raised by the media who are predominatly owned by..................? :thinking:

I think Sharon has to be ousted


He's too liked by America ..... despite his past involvements in war crimes, which funnily enough he's never had to beanswerable to. It's Arafat they want removed.....so way can be made for a nice Palestinian puppet leader. you know it makes sense. ;)

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Postby laura l » Sat May 03, 2003 7:23 am

I was watching 'newsnight' and an israeli MP was having a debate with a member of the Palestinian council - the israeli was going on about

.... 'Palestinians need to stop suicide bombing then we can start the peace process. it's up to them'

The Palestinian representative responded by saying....

....'true, but Israel needs to stop illegal occupation. Persistent usurption of land that never belonged to them isn't making the Palestinians feel any better.....'

The Israeli guy then started shouting and whinging whilst the Palestinian remained calm and composed.
It made me laugh because it shows just how much the israelis hate it when 'illegal occupation' is mentioned. they can't respond to it because they know they are in the wrong.


Typical. It pisses me off that this kind of scenes are shown at a time when hardly anyone watches TV. During the day you rarely get the chance to see a non-bearded Muslim wearing a proper suit and speaking fluent English. Nope. All you see is streets crowded almost exclusively by men, usually wearing a beard, not speaking English, and wearing rags. Basically, they show poor people and try to get people to believe that Muslims are 200 centuries late, still work the land for a living, never heard of running water, can't read nor write, and of course with the traditional bearded guy - the potential terrorist - and the veiled woman - the badly treated poor being. This leads some people to believe sh**, as a consequence, every now and again you hear some arseholes making speech saying how Islam is backward and dangerous....blah blah blah...Like this bastard Dutch MP who was murdered by another Dutch, who was not of Arab origin and not a Muslim either(!)

The reason why you don't get such scenes in America and israel is because they are well off, the poorest Israeli is a middle class Palestinian. How do you want me to feel sorry for them?!! They seem to be ok with their lifes. I read some statistics, and all in all, there has been more casualties on the palestinian side than on the Israeli side.......if you put it on top of their high living standards, the fact that they're never punished for the sh** they do I'm really wondering what they're complaining about: they chose to usurp, thus to live in fear. The Palsestinians did not.

This stereotype is so wrong. But then again, stereotypes is one way of getting into the simple minded average viewer's mind all the sh** you want them to believe. Well done, it seems to be working. I didn't watch newsnight last night but I believe what you say.....if you get some arab channels you'll see some of it happening everytime there is a debate between Israeli and Arab diplomats. it's in arabic and I don't get a sh** but it looks funny to see one sweating and spitting and the other one calm and collected.

Question: why is that when Saddam sends tanks into Kowait it's an "invasion" whereas when Sharon sends tanks into Palestinian territories it's called an "incursion"? I mean, in the dictionnary and incursion is "a sudden invasion, attack, or raid" (Collins Dictionary)......It may be only me but "incursion" sounds less wrong than "invasion" .....I guess all means are good enough if it serves your propaganda :rolleyes:

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sat May 03, 2003 10:54 am

The only difference between 'incursion' and 'invasion' is the person behind it. It's the exact same rule for 'terrorism' and 'freedom-fighting'. :shrug:

Terrorism is a term only applicable when it suits an agenda. We hear about al-Quaeda terrorism and Iraqi terrorism and Palestinian terrorism -- especially about Palestinian terrorism with the Bush government repeatedly demanding that Yasser Arafat arrest every Palestinian designated as a "terrorist" on a list given to him by irael. But we haven't heard anything about israeli terrorism or about U.S. terrorism: not even a word. The controlled news media in america would have us believe that the governments of israel and the united states doesn’t engage in terrorism. :lol:

But what is terrorism and what isn't? Is terrorism what individuals or small groups do when they're angry at a government, but what governments do is legitimate warfare or self-defence or something else other than terrorism? :thinking:

But wait, <_< that can't be, because we were told that the government of Afghanistan that america not only installed but then destroyed was a terrorist government, and so is the government of Iraq, which the media promoted in destroying last month. So let's see, maybe it's the type of weapon that's used that determines whether an action is terrorism or not. If one uses a car bomb or a human bomb, as the Palestinians often do, it's terrorism. If one uses a helicopter gun ship, as the israelis often use to assassinate Palestinian leaders, or an airplane, like fat yanks use to bomb Afghanistan, it's not terrorism.

Hold on, that can't be right, because Osama bin Laden used airplanes in his attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, and the whole world was assured that was terrorism. So why is little Bush's aerial bombing of Kabul Kandahar, Baghdad not terrorism, while Osama bin Laden's aerial bombing of New
York and Washington was?

Perhaps what distinguishes legitimate warfare from terrorism is motivation. You see in warfare one attempts to destroy the enemy's military forces and to capture territory from the enemy; in terrorism one
attempts to demoralise or terrify the enemy. But then what should we call the bombing of Iraqi cities by the america? What was the motive behind Britain's program to drop millions of anthrax bombs on Germany
during the second world war. However, the Second World War ended before Britain could use the anthrax bombs it had prepared, but Churchill had fully intended to use them -- and to use them when it already was apparent that Germany was losing the war. Why is Winston Churchill regarded by
all of the controlled media as a hero, as a great and good man, while whoever is mailing anthrax-infected letters to politicians and media bosses in the united states a year ago is regarded as a "terrorist" and is
described as "evil" and "cowardly"?

But seriously now..... using your brains (this is the part where american swill stumble at :headache: ) it's quite obvious what terrorism is......

If someone we don't like does it to us, it's terrorism; if we do it to someone else, it isn't. More to the point, if someone the media bosses don't like strikes at jewish israelis, for example -- or at someone friendly to the israelis -- the american government, for example -- then its terrorism. If jewish israelis, for example -- strike at Palestinians, or if the american. government strikes at anyone -- Afghans or Iraqis, for example -- on behalf of the isrealis , then it isn't terrorism.

Do you all remember the attempt made by the Israelis in 1967 to sink the U.S. Navy ship, the Liberty, so that it could be blamed on the Egyptians, generating US. hostility against Egypt? Probably not. The media never thought to mention it to anyone for long enough.....(wonder why?) Although the attempt failed, the israelis did kill 35 americans in their terror attack on the Liberty. The controlled media, of course, not only didn't call it "terrorism" but did their best to hush it up by giving it minimal news coverage. So the rule is: if it's an attack by israelis or on behalf of israelis it's not terrorism. If it's an attack against israelis or against general jewish interests, it is terrorism. That's why Ariel Sharon isn't a terrorist, and Osama bin Laden is. Now I get it :lol:

But maybe we should all remind ourselves about Mr Sharon : The prime minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, is a war criminal, a mass murderer, with the blood of thousands of women and children on his hands. He has been sought for trial by the same Hague Tribunal that succeeded in extraditing former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic for trial on charges of crimes against humanity in Kosovo, the same Hague Tribunal that already has tried and sentenced soldiers who raped and murdered in Bosnia and in Rwanda.

But what did this nazi do?????

In 1982, during israel's invasion of Lebanon, Ariel Sharon was Israel's defence minister. After the bloody terror-bombing of civilian neighbourhoods in Beirut that killed thousands of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians -- terror bombing carried out by israeli thugs flying military aircraft supplied to israel by the united states -- Sharon arranged for the evacuation of Palestinian fighters from Lebanon. Palestinian women, children, and old people were left behind in refugee camps, with their safety guaranteed by the united states. However, this is the good bit, in the night of September 16, 1982, Sharon sent murder squads into two Palestinian refugee camps, Sabra and Chatila, in West Beirut to kill the unarmed Palestinian civilians in the camps. With Israeli tanks and troops surrounding the camps to prevent any of the Palestinians from escaping, Sharon's murder squads shot, knifed, and bludgeoned Palestinian civilians all that night and the next day and the following night, while the Israelis around the camps listened gleefully to the shots and
screams coming from inside. Then Sharon sent in bulldozers to scoop out mass burial pits and cover up the corpses of more than 2,000 Palestinian women and children. Many Palestinians remained unburied, however, and Red Cross workers found whole families in their homes with their throats cut and other
families who had been lined up and machine-gunned, from small children to elderly grandparents. One infant had been stomped to death by a man wearing spiked boots. Nice......

This was Ariel Sharon's work, but only a part of his work. He is a man who believes the teaching of the Talmud that only his kind are human beings, and that all who are not of his ilk were put on this earth only to serve people like him, and that anyone who opposes people like him deserve to be killed, and he
has acted in accord with this belief all his life. There are a dozen major atrocities for which he has been tried for by the Hague Tribunal, but the one with which he was charged with was for the mass murder he implemented, as Israel's defence minister, in West Beirut in September 1982. And the U.S. government pretends that it knows nothing about Sharon's genocidal crimes against humanity. In fact, most Americans don’t because funnily enough it never appeared on MTV. However, funnily enough, his trial was thrown out of court…..the butcher was rescued thanks to good old yankee hypocritical appeasement.

Furthermore, in the 1950s israel's Mossad, the equivalent of the CIA in the United States, sent hundreds of letter bombs to German scientists working in Egypt and Syria, killing a number of them. In 1967, during israel's war against Egypt, the israeli army carried out a number of mass executions of Egyptian prisoners of war in the Sinai, forcing them to dig ditches, then lining them up and shooting them. Dozens of eyewitnesses to these mass executions have reported what they saw, but the world's politicians and media bosses pretend not to know - IN THE SAME WAY THEY FEIGNED NO KNOWLEDGE OF HALABJA - a crime that only NOW dumb americans are quoting atevery given opportunity. And as mentioned in 1967 Israel attacked the U.S. Navy ship, the U.S.S. Liberty, attempting to sink it and kill its crew and then blame the sinking on the Egyptians. In fact, little is known about these israeli agents who have carried out assassinations and other terrorist operations around the world. One of the most colourful of these operations -- and one of the few that received major media coverage -- was the attempt to murder a prominent Muslim cleric in Jordan in 1997. Two Israeli agents sprayed poison in the ear of Khaled Meshal as they walked past him on a sidewalk in Amman. Fortunately, Meshal's bodyguards were able to catch the two as they ran away, and so the
assassination attempt was publicised. israel has stolen nuclear materials and nuclear weapons technology from the united states to build an illegal nuclear arsenal. israel also is known to have developed an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction. None of these Israeli activities are a secret many have been found out and publicised by independent voices but not publicised very much, of course. In fact, they all were dropped from the news pretty quickly. :thinking:

But yet still today, all we hear is ‘palestinian terrorism’ and ‘israeli defence’ … because that[s what the PRO-ISRAELI media of the most liberal nation in the world – BULLsh** – want us to believe. They bank on the fact that americans are dumb and incapable of questioning their government. It’s this dependence on the lemming like nature of useless americans that has allowed the israeli government to advance their interests across the middle east. If it isn’t about britney, starbuks or some gay boy band, then they don’t want to know. They don’t want to question why they are under fire. They still believe it’s because BL is jealous of their freedom!! I’m sure he is ….. The Dixie chick’s treatment is proof of it(!)

This war and no doubt the many wars to follow against the Islamics of the world is all media promoted and government accepted. Intimidation through propaganda is a powerful weapon in the hands of these immoral religious less warmongers. All this flag-waving behaviour by morons ready to beat up anyone who didn't seem an enthusiastic enough supporter of the war effort. Anyone who questioned america's terror bombing of Baghdad has been looked at with scorn and deemed a Saddam appeaser and considered a subversive. The lemmings have been tying yellow ribbons to everything in sight lest anyone suspect that they weren't gung ho to kill as many Iraqis as possible. Well they got their way in the end and they can all have their mug of cocoa and go to bed with a big grin on their face :smlove: whilst the children of Palestine continue to be slaughtered by a government that these selfish yankee bastards have been supporting for decades.

Yes, god bless america indeed. :picknose:

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Sun May 04, 2003 2:36 pm

W-P, a lot of points you've brought up, I have heard about in the past - albeit very briefly.

I don't know... :no: ..... it just seems to me that the more you learn and find out about the world, the less you really know.....

I've been learning about Israel-Palestinian conflict and the general aminosity between the USA and Arab world for as long as I can remember, and I feel, that in my entire lifetime, I'll never really know enough.......

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Postby laura l » Sun May 04, 2003 8:17 pm

In 1982, during israel's invasion of Lebanon, Ariel Sharon was Israel's defence minister. After the bloody terror-bombing of civilian neighbourhoods in Beirut that killed thousands of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians -- terror bombing carried out by israeli thugs flying military aircraft supplied to israel by the united states -- Sharon arranged for the evacuation of Palestinian fighters from Lebanon. Palestinian women, children, and old people were left behind in refugee camps, with their safety guaranteed by the united states. However, this is the good bit, in the night of September 16, 1982, Sharon sent murder squads into two Palestinian refugee camps, Sabra and Chatila, in West Beirut to kill the unarmed Palestinian civilians in the camps. With Israeli tanks and troops surrounding the camps to prevent any of the Palestinians from escaping, Sharon's murder squads shot, knifed, and bludgeoned Palestinian civilians all that night and the next day and the following night, while the Israelis around the camps listened gleefully to the shots and
screams coming from inside. Then Sharon sent in bulldozers to scoop out mass burial pits and cover up the corpses of more than 2,000 Palestinian women and children. Many Palestinians remained unburied, however, and Red Cross workers found whole families in their homes with their throats cut and other
families who had been lined up and machine-gunned, from small children to elderly grandparents. One infant had been stomped to death by a man wearing spiked boots. Nice......

That sounds so much like all of these stories told by people who survived the holocaust, I know it because so many films have been made about it, on how awful and inhuman it was. Has anyone heard of a film about Sabra and Chatila? :unsure:........why do it to others? Why is he not labelled "nazi"?

If it's an attack against israelis or against general jewish interests, it is terrorism

I have to disagree with the "Jewish in genral" part. All my Jewish friends are sepharade, and they are very different. Last year, in my city there were demonstrations every Thursday at 6pm and they took part a lot of times......out of conviction!!! Sepharade Jews are ok, they've been living peacefully amongst Muslims, in Muslim countries in North Africa for ages. Problem is with the ashkhenaze (or whatever the name in English, sorry I don't know it)

Do you all remember the attempt made by the Israelis in 1967 to sink the U.S. Navy ship, the Liberty, so that it could be blamed on the Egyptians, generating US. hostility against Egypt?

They use this technique all teh time. I've heard of a few things which happened in France, when allegedly "anti-semite" incidents had originally been performed by some extremist Jews. I know it does happen a lot here, the French ahve a natural tendency to accusing its maghrebin population for any criminal activity going on in teh country so it's very easy for them to put the blame on "the dangerous arab youth" - the barbarious Muslim arabs trying to harm the hamless Jewsih community.......everyone buys it! :rolleyes:

I have to say reading your posts is positively enlightening and definately hilarious. Never thought I'd come to abstracts to learn thing,.....I had never heard about the "Liberty" incident, thanks a lot for telling us about it.

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sun May 04, 2003 8:48 pm

why do it to others?


This is something I'll never fully understand myself. For a group of people who have suffered greatly in the past - note the word PAST - for them to inflict hate on another group smacks of blatant hypocrisy. That's why I tend to roll my eyes at 'Holocaust memorial' days simply because it's a historical event that no-one, (particularly those who insist we remember it,) have learned anything from. Furthermore, the Jewish immigrants of Israel need to be reminded that the holocaust wasn't started or carried out by the Muslims. The main problem that the Arab nations and Muslim world at large rightly have with that country is the fact they - in simple terms - stole their land! I thought theft was illegal!

have to disagree with the "Jewish in genral" part. All my Jewish friends are sepharade, and they are very different. Last year, in my city there were demonstrations every Thursday at 6pm and they took part a lot of times......out of conviction!!! Sepharade Jews are ok, they've been living peacefully amongst Muslims, in Muslim countries in North Africa for ages. Problem is with the ashkhenaze (or whatever the name in English, sorry I don't know it)


What people say and mean are two separate things. But my criticism of these zionist is mainly aimed at those that swagger round in america and israel, carrying on as if we all owe them a goddamn living. They need to get off their moneypiles and recognise the fact that they are suffering no longer. What is it with humans? It's like we're all in this big contest labelled 'who's suffered the most in the world' 'which group of people have been victimised more'? The Jewish communities round here where I live, market themselves as some kind of 'hard done by minority that are victims of society' ..... funny they all just look like White people to me :lol: and as a white dude myself, their constant whining of 'racism' against them makes me laugh :D To me, a minority is what you see. Anyone can hide their religion if they feel it might be a hindrance....especially if they have a white face.

I've heard of a few things which happened in France, when allegedly "anti-semite" incidents had originally been performed by some extremist Jews


It's a common technique - really makes you wonder why whenever a peace plan for israel and Palestine is rolled out, a suicide bomber just miraculously appears out of nowhere :thinking: Really have to question WHO's behind it in reality. The israeli government are renowned for pulling tricks - as in the case of the Liberty ship - I would put nothing past them.

I had never heard about the "Liberty" incident


Not suprising. It appeared and then disappeared from the news stories within hours. It is however mentioned in Moore's 'Stupid White Men' book.

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Postby laura l » Sun May 04, 2003 9:13 pm

This is something I'll never fully understand myself. For a group of people who have suffered greatly in the past - note the word PAST - for them to inflict hate on another group smacks of blatant hypocrisy. That's why I tend to roll my eyes at 'Holocaust memorial' days simply because it's a historical event that no-one, (particularly those who insist we remember it,) have learned anything from. Furthermore, the Jewish immigrants of Israel need to be reminded that the holocaust wasn't started or carried out by the Muslims. The main problem that the Arab nations and Muslim world at large rightly have with that country is the fact they - in simple terms - stole their land! I thought theft was illegal!

E X A C T L Y ! ! ! ! Everytime there is a suicide bomber, they send tanks and terrorise the hell out of innocent Palestinians, which triggers more suicide bombs, and more "incursions"....I'm not buying their sh** of "we do it because they started with their attacks targetting our civilians in our pubs and night clubs" because originally, if you rewind it: before that suicide bomber there was military operations, preceded by attacks, preceded by military action, preceded by attacks, preceded a f***ING ILLEGAL USURAPTION OF TERRITORY ACCEPTED BY A DUMB INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HELD BY THE BALLS BY AMERICA!!!! Hardly 60 years ago Israel did not exist, and the Palestinian people were at peace. Overnight they are asked to live in slums, surrender their belongings to the invader, and above all SHUT UP AND KEEP QUITE. Who would accept it? The history of Israel started on the theft of a land, and America's history started with teh genocide of "native Americans".....just the first common point of a long, long list.


They love to use their past only when it suits them, it's like for the rest. I'm surprised though that never any politician had the balls to speak out and point out all these contradictions, are we the common mortals, the only beings capable of seeing it? WTF? If there were enough of them voicing their oppostion they'd be f***ed, unless we reach a third world war I'm sure things would change. I'm so pissed off with Middle-Eastern arabo-muslim countries like Saoudi Arabia, Kowait, and Oman amongst others who have cash and could easily blackmail America, money's their weak point why not use it?? They are not supportive and one day or another they'll have the US troops - they so nicely hosted for the numerous wars against brother nations - turn their guns the other way round deep up their arse. Then they'll learn they were wrong and there will be no one to help them out because all the other arabo-muslim nations will have been f***ed before, at a time they did not help.


Adriana recommended this book, right now I'm jsut slowly dissapearing behind all teh work I have but I surely check him out this summer. I watched "Bowling ..." and it was convincing, I will definately read it.

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sun May 04, 2003 9:26 pm

B)

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sun May 04, 2003 9:27 pm

The reason why the powers-that-be support Israel is for two main reasons:

1 - Those powers are predominantly Jewish

2 - As mentioned, the entire land of America was founded on terrorism. Having successfully removed nearly every trace of the Native Indians and evolved into the land they have, israel feels the same can happen for them once Palestinians are removed.

There will never be peace. And yes, Muslim nations need to start pulling their fingers out. As I mentioned in a previous post, their apathy is aggravating the situation and providing America with enough ammunition to NOT help Palestinians. They think 'Well if Muslims aren't going to help each others, why should we?'

Muslim nations need to overcome whatever differences they think they have and for God's sake UNITE!!!

It does amuse me when people talk about a 'vicious circle' as far as Israel and Palestine are concerned. They use that term to effectively remove the start of blame from Israelis and make out that they're all in the wrong.

I beg to differ - this is no vicious circle, it's a f***ing vicious LINE - that as you said laura, began with theft of land, persistent illegal occupation and mass murder of Palestinians, by ISRAELIS in a bid to take over the villages. The blame is positively, entirely on the door step of israelis and their mistress Miss America.

The peace process will only begin when ISRAEL stops illegal occupation......and more importantly when they stop hiring people to suicide bomb to halt the peace efforts ...... I'm on to them <_<

:lol:

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Postby laura l » Sun May 04, 2003 9:41 pm

The peace process will only begin when ISRAEL stops illegal occupation......and more importantly when they stop hiring people to suicide bomb to halt the peace efforts ...... I'm on to them  


I once met this guy in my university library who was doing some researches on this conflict, he was preparing a thesis and he was explaining to me how some Palestinians men, with wife and children, were recruited by Israelis to perform suicide attacks and in exchange they were offered money if they gave one fo their sons for it, or promised to support financially the family if it was teh dad going for it.

How desperate can you be to betray your own people and trust that they - after your death - will support your family?!

There will never be peace. And yes, Muslim nations need to start pulling their fingers out. As I mentioned in a previous post, their apathy is aggravating the situation and providing America with enough ammunition to NOT help Palestinians. They think 'Well if Muslims aren't going to help each others, why should we?'

Muslim nations need to overcome whatever differences they think they have and for God's sake UNITE!!!

I don't understand this, and probably never will....I don't think it's only about differences between Muslims because North African Muslims are very different too and they support Palestine. Mind you they are poor countries, if they had the dough they might change their leitmotiv. I really think there's more to it than religious differences....but what?!

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sun May 04, 2003 9:53 pm

Perosnlly I believe some Muslim nations (if not all) have their hands tied by america. They may have a lot of money but not the freedom to do what they please with it.

The truth is the situation between of Palestine is so desperate - the anger is very deep-seated and has been marinating for decades. Consequently, america and israel can't afford to give power to the Palestinians anymore - in fear of what the Palestinians may do with it, considering the justified anger they have.

I personally believe Palestinians and Isrealis will never beable to co-exist in peace. Israelis want Plaestinians out and vice-versa. The most the Palestinians will get are slum towns and little shanty villages. That entire land will always be the nation of Israel wih Palestinians as their minority community.

And in regards to your comments about the israelis hiring suicide bombers - it goes back to what i said about how these powerful nations' biggest fear is losing their power and grip. Israelis just simply do not want Palestinians to get to a position where they have some power. Whatever it takes to halt the peace process........I have no faith in these governments. They're full of swindlers, thieves, cheaters and morally bankrupt thugs. Placing any kind of faith in them is like placing your faith in a snake.

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Tue May 06, 2003 8:09 am

Perosnlly I believe some Muslim nations (if not all) have their hands tied by america. They may have a lot of money but not the freedom to do what they please with it.


This is more than likely to be true. As much as the American powers-that-be hark on about freedom and liberation, there are many countries they are strict with. In all fairness, what can Muslim countries really do? Some say they should provide homes for the Palestinians, especially those that are pro-Israeli say that. Wel, ....erm, WHY SHOULD THEY? That land is Palestinian.

personally believe Palestinians and Isrealis will never beable to co-exist in peace. Israelis want Plaestinians out and vice-versa. The most the Palestinians will get are slum towns and little shanty villages. That entire land will always be the nation of Israel wih Palestinians as their minority community


If you watch the news the other day , this is more or less what the Israeli govt is hinting at. They want to keep the good land and give the Palestinians the poor land. Despite all that crap about how we wil listen to the Palestinians, Ameria is still allowing the israelis to make 'amendments' to their peace plan.

about the israelis hiring suicide bombers


During my time there .... there was a lot of talk about this amongst not just Palestinian communities but israeli ones. You jus never know.....

This is my flatmate's proposal of a peace plan, in light of comments about how the Muslim countries should take in the Palestinians:-

Why doesn't america provide land for israelis in their counry? israel is aleady more or less the 51st state, plus the majority of israelis speak with an american accent as well as enjoying an american-style culture. :D Makes more sense - leave the middle east to the Muslims.

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Postby laura l » Tue May 06, 2003 2:53 pm

Perosnlly I believe some Muslim nations (if not all) have their hands tied by america. They may have a lot of money but not the freedom to do what they please with it.


I think if there was really a unified middle-East voicing unconditional support (as unconditional as America's towards israel) there would be a real threat. If they seriously did it America could not ignore them, let's not over-estimate America's power, they couldn't fight so many countries at teh same time with efficiency and above all without real international support. I think these countries shouldn't have stopped what they had started. They used to support the Palestinian people but then got corrupted (-intimidated?) one by one. What I blame them for is their lack of diplomacy (hear that White Power? ;) ) because leading a crusade and claiming out loud "WE WANT ISRAEL'S DEATH" was clearly putting off the international community as well as the public opinion, and rightly so. Even if Russia initially refused to accept the existence of Israel it was impossible for them to say openly "We support those countries who wish death on other people" especially when this people is almost exclusively Jewish, you can't do that not so long after WWII. Arab countries meant it, and surely still do, they should have been more "diplomatic", they should have acted like America and Israel act today, namely wishing death on every Muslim without saying it. Arab countries should have played the card of the victim Palestinians just as the US and Israel do today. But I believe it's not too late, after all these years of policy of non-aggression towards Israel, they have their credibility and can't be accused of wanting any specific harm to Israel, now they have to reunite and support Palestinians again, and talk more about the victims of atrocious crimes. I already saw a couple of pro-Palestinian documentaries on TV, there should be more, MUCH MORE there should be films about Sabra and Chatila just as there are hundreds of films about the Holocaust. There should be more propaganda and coming from people who are unviased on the surface -> I believe DIPLOMACY is the key because the best way to deal with hypocrist is to be a hypocrit yourself. There are one thousand ways of saying "fu ck yuo son of a bi tch" politely :)

During my time there .... there was a lot of talk about this amongst not just Palestinian communities but israeli ones. You jus never know.....

If some Israelis are aware that it might be the case, if they don't trust their governent it's time they started doing something. You can't just sit there and wait for your government to come and blow your house up. If you don't care about Palestinians at least do yourself a favour and act.

Why doesn't america provide land for israelis in their counry? israel is aleady more or less the 51st state, plus the majority of israelis speak with an american accent as well as enjoying an american-style culture.  Makes more sense - leave the middle east to the Muslims.

I've often wondered that too. I'm wondering why they don't all bugger off there and give us all a break. And please, don't answer me that usual "holy land" sh** because if you believe in violence you are not a good religious person, whatever teh religion, I'm talking about extremists of all religions - yeah, they're not all Muslim, I know, bit of a shock :rolleyes:

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Tue May 06, 2003 7:19 pm

I think if there was really a unified middle-East voicing unconditional support (as unconditional as America's towards israel) there would be a real threat.


That's why a lot of people believe the Arab world should be more united - so they can be a force to be reckoned with.

And yes the Arab nations should've been more diplomatic about it and not openly wished death on Israel. But in their defence, either way, their voices would've been ignored. It is no secret that the media of America is predominantly Jewish owned - they avidly support israel and recognise Muslim nations as their 'enemies'.

Now, the American media is more than aware of the fact that the majority of American people DO NOT travel nor endeavour to find out more about the international community the way they should. All the knowledge of the world comes mainly from the television sets and newspapers - this world is becoming increasingly media-dependant. Couple this with the arrogant patrotism that is now on the rise in America - (why i don't know. it's not like they are the first ever country to have been attacked by an outside force for heaven's sake), but anyway, the American people's genuine feelings of 9/11 have been manipulated and just used as an excuse to seek vengenace on anyone that America doesn't like. And the huge pro-israel parties that have a stronghold in Congress know damn sure who they wanna go after :lol:

I juust wish people would question things more rather than just accept things blindly. Particularly where govts are concerned esp those whose hands are covered in oil. Throughout the whole war, never once did I hear Bush asking for God's blessings for the Iraqi people - it was just all me me me me me me. Not one of these arrogant pompous pricks showed any compassion for the humanitarian crisis that ensued. All they wanted to know is 'are we winning??' For god's sakes....this isn't a f***ing computer game - it's people's lives.

should be more, MUCH MORE there should be films about Sabra and Chatila just as there are hundreds of films about the Holocaust


But it's like W-P said: it seems to be this contest o 'who's suffered the most'. and the fact is the holocaust is an event that just isn't allowed to be forgotten or surpassed. Rememebr the Kosovan crisis and those images of millions of Muslims fleeing and heading for the hills and cramping into trains? That was just like the holocaust - but it just isn't remeberred or reflected upon in the same way. And u know why? it's all about media ownership. If Muslims were a force in the media world, you would see more films about the Palestinian crisis.

"holy land" sh**


That's exactly what it is...S*H*It. Not one of those Israeli leaders or Palestinian leaders may I add really give a damn about their religion and observe it in the ay they should - just like Bush and Blair. They use religion as a tool or weapon to justify theri actions - it's a way of clearing their conscience about things.
If it's such a holy land, and that is where Jesus is supposed to return, I'm sure he'll be eager to shake Mr Sharon's hands who has the blood of Palestinian children coverd all over his body(!).( I'm so glad you brought that up W-P.) I've brought it up in the past and have always been shut down, and funnily enough the opposer then rants a vicious diatribe against Mr Arafat. Mr Arafat knows what he has done in the past and admits to it. Does Mr Sharon??????

I'm talking about extremists of all religions - yeah, they're not all Muslim, I know, bit of a shock


What about Catholics? Look at the sh** we've (well not me personally :lol: ) have pulled in Northern Ireland.....Spanish ETA ....... and you know the Jewish Defence League has been involved in terrorist activities in the past...but I forget, they're 'freedom fighters'. Terrorism has been around for centuries - how else were countries like America and Australia created???? What about Timothy McVeigh? david Koresh and Lord knows how many oteh rreligious fanatical groups that are out there ..... but funily enough their religion doesn't precede them.... :rolleyes:

Anyone who thinks terrorism is a Muslim thing can kiss it :bootyshake:

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Tue May 06, 2003 7:33 pm

adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/sharon_swastika.jpgSums It up pretty well :lol:

http://zog.to/3/Sharon/sh-ind.htmlWARNING: VERY DISTURBING AND UPSETTING

AND TO POSTERS LIKE TXANCHICK and LANCEGRL: I wonder if they'll express the same anger and sadness at this as they did with thepictures txanchick put up of Halabja :thinking:

chretiens-et-juifs.org/cje_files/D7/cje_images/image001_1625.gifDO NOT FEED THE ANIMAL....

ARIEL SHARON QUOTE : <span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>[B<span style='font-family:Arial'>]want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." [/B]</span></span></span>

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Tue May 06, 2003 7:37 pm

taken from the American website (link in previous post)
I don't know who wrote this, but it is an American - so that counts for something i guess?

THE NEW MANTRA

The Jews / Ariel Sharon, are / is engaged in a massive propaganda campaign to convince the world that the Jews are the victims and that the Palestinians are the aggressors. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is the Jews who by political machination, terrorism and brute military force wrested most of the land of Palestine from it's people who had occupied the land for many generations. It is the Jews who having driven the Palestinians from their homeland then bulldozed their homes, at least the ones they didn't take for Jews.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is the Jews who bulldozed over 400 Palestinian villages so that their would be nothing for the Palestinians to return to. These are not the acts of a Messiah led people, these are the acts of cruel, cunning, avaricious and evil men. These evil acts spawned the terrorism which put the metal detectors in our airports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1967 Ariel Sharon / the Jews began the process of taking that remnant of land which the Palestinians were left with. In a surprise attack they caught the Egyptian Airforce on the ground and totally destroyed it. Since then Israel has engaged in a process of bulldozing down Palestinian homes and taking the land for Jew houses. It is not a messiah led people, it is criminal Jews doing this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Palestinians are fully justified, even it is their duty as men to resist the oppression of the Zionist thieves who would take their homes and their homeland and be rid of them. The violence will end when Israel recognizes the rights of the Palestinian people and extends justice to them. Negotiations has been no more than Jew trickery and marking time while the thievery and oppression continues. Israel no longer wants to negotiate because that hand has been almost played out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ariel Sharon, you cunning son of a dog, I have another mantra for you. It is this, "No man and no people is entitled to take by nefarious means the home or the homeland of another people".

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Postby laura l » Wed May 07, 2003 2:19 pm

AND TO POSTERS LIKE TXANCHICK and LANCEGRL: I wonder if they'll express the same anger and sadness at this as they did with thepictures txanchick put up of Halabja

They might be busy shedding their precious tears for the precious lives of those precious American vicitms of that - maybe terrorist - storm. Or they're debating on "Should Justin change hair-cut". Don't know :shrug:

But it's like W-P said: it seems to be this contest o 'who's suffered the most'.

As things are presently, I'd qualify this and say "it's about who talks about it the most" Current events don't make me feel like Israelis are suffering mroe than the Palestinians. As to the Holocaust, if you're so cruel as to reproduce the horror on to someone else, then two conclusions can be drawn: either it was not so horrific, so shut up. Or it's the worst crime ever, and you tie for teh title of "worst criminal ever". I go for the second one, with no hesitation.

Thanks for the article Adriana. I guess he's one of those "unpatriotic unworthy American" who will never get the chance to be heard because he disagrees.....

Love the pics, I've already send them all to everyone I know......Actually, I'm wondering if sometimes I don't also send things of the kind to my university tutors....whatever, that's my contribution B)

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Wed May 07, 2003 4:16 pm

They might be busy shedding their precious tears for the precious lives of those precious American vicitms of that - maybe terrorist - storm. Or they're debating on "Should Justin change hair-cut". Don't know


More than likely, and it goes back to what many have said - 'only when it suits them'.

But I'm hoping L, that in about....erm 10 years time, these posters will start putting up links for Sabra and Shatilla and insist we all remember it...and we'll all be like 'DOH! We already know about it!!' Just like WE already knew about Halabja. But that hope is quite little. If it doesn't affect American, and at present Mr Sharon doesn't, then they don't wanna know. And there was me thinking, that these people round here actually cared about human life!


current events don't make me feel like Israelis are suffering mroe than the Palestinians


Forget current.......Majority , if not all, of the time my sympathy is directed towards Palestinians. yes it's sad that Israelis can't go shopping to malls without being blown up, but then it's even sadder that a Palestinian family aren't allowed to live their life peacefully without having to always dodge Israeli gunfire because the greedy israelis can't keep their hands off their land.

As to the Holocaust, if you're so cruel as to reproduce the horror on to someone else, then two conclusions can be drawn: either it was not so horrific, so shut up. Or it's the worst crime ever, and you tie for teh title of "worst criminal ever". I go for the second one, with no hesitation.


Well said ...... but i agree with W-P's point, it's all about passing the hate. They got sick of being attacked now they want others to suffer. By doing this, it effectively cancels out their suffering.

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Postby Shaunt » Thu May 08, 2003 12:23 am

"[Also] the Armenian who lives in Syria became a Syrian. Many Armenians did not move to Armenia after it became independent, because they felt that their connection to Syria was deeper."

"Why were they not accepted in that very same region by the very same people who accepted the very much different Armenians ?" (Referring to Jews)

"...the same time the Zionist movement was bringing Jews to Palestine, prior, during and after the world wars, at the same time Armenians were fleeing their country in large numbers because of the genocide...in Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Egypt...Armenians are different from Arabs and Muslims: religiously, linguistically, and ethically. However, they were welcomed in all those countries and they prospered and not just economically..."

But hold on, these aren't the thirsty, murderous, scandalous Arabs I hear about??? Arabs, and Armenians, devote Muslims, and devote Christians co-existing peacefully? :blink:

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Postby laura l » Thu May 08, 2003 6:03 am

"Why were they not accepted in that very same region by the very same people who accepted the very much different Armenians ?" (Referring to Jews)

"...the same time the Zionist movement was bringing Jews to Palestine, prior, during and after the world wars, at the same time Armenians were fleeing their country in large numbers because of the genocide...in Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and Egypt...Armenians are different from Arabs and Muslims: religiously, linguistically, and ethically. However, they were welcomed in all those countries and they prospered and not just economically..."


:huh: from what I know Armenians did not land with the violent intention to take over the wealth, houses and jobs of the natives. Did Armenians perform terrorist attacks to get natives' land? Did Armenians kick them out and forced them to live in slums? Did Armenians declare that every country they had fled to was their own? Did they rename it? Because if they did, then fair enough, the comparison makes a lot of sense.

Where's that quote from?

Gotta dash to work now, I'll reply to you Adriana!!

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Thu May 08, 2003 8:14 pm

Shaunt your post is interesting although if I'm perfectly honest, I'm not understanding what point you're trying to make.

I'm assuming that most people are aware or should be aware of the 'Armenian Holocaust' (and I put that in apstrophes because it's never officially been identified by that...wonder why) ... which was carried out by Turkey in 1915 for three years.

There is no doubt the Turkish govt hate being reminded of it and this was proven this last tuesday when Turkey celebrated its independance day with an Armenian woman carryng the torch. There was very real and distinct pressure on Feridun Sinirlioglu the Turkish ambassador to Israel , to exclude any mention of how this particular lady was I think, 3rd generation survivor of the Armenian holocaust. She was understandably pissed about this and said QUOTE: Everything that is happening now shows that an individual has no freedom to express his identity if he is not a Jew. I, as an Armenian, have no right to say what is my identity. They don't say to second and third generations of Holocaust survivors `don't say that,' do they?"

Furthermore, I'm assuming you're aware that the terrorising state of israel has consistently refrained from acknowledging the genocide of the Armenian people. This is a state, which has been established by a nation victimised by genocide, but yet quite happily partakes in not only the denial of another people's genocide, namely the Armenian, but the continuing genocide of Palestinians. It is known that there is generally strong pressure from groups within israeli society, who are afraid that the recognition of the Armenian genocide would damage the concept of the uniqueness of what they describe as the 'Shoah' or holocaaust. Again, Jewish are the only ones allowed to remember their history as well as imposing it on all of us to remember, but yet quite happily deny everyone else of their right to remember theirs. The policy of denial is expressed formally by the fact that, government representatives do not participate in the memorial assemblies held every year on April 24 by the Armenians to commemorate the Armenian genocide. Political leaders and government representatives in many other countries, even those which do not officially recognise the Armenian Genocide, do send messages of acknowledgement and sympathy and even participate in the ceremonies. This israeli policy of avoiding participation in memorials or consciously refraining from acknowledging the genocide is not some sort of innocent denial.

The behaviour of israel since the end of the 70s and into the early 80s, became an active denial as far as the genocide was concerned. Also, in 2001-2002 , it actually degenerated into a direct denial. In 2001, I think, there was an interview with Shimon Peres , who at that time was Minister of Foreign Affairs and Deputy Prime Minister of israel. He declared that the ' Armenian Allegations are Meaningless.' . The interview was held on the eve of his official visit to Turkey. Peres claimed in it that it is for historians to deal with such historical issues, and not politicians. But yet again, he and his cohorts, as politicians, never fail to bring up their holocaust whenever being interviewed about the conflict between Palestinians. Anyway, this idea that historians should remember may seem feasible, and is sometimes used by governments - including the good old american and the israeli - who wish to avoid the dilemma. But, it is very well known that this denial tactic is practiced manipulatively at the same time. In the interview, Peres said that israel should not take an historical or philosophical position on the Armenian issue but was quoted as saying:

"'We reject attempts to create a similarity between the Holocaust
and the Armenian allegations. Nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. It is a tragedy what the Armenians went through, but not a genocide.""

israel has always avoided the Armenian issue but this interview managed to piss enough people off because it more or less showed that the israeli Foreign Minister had officially joined the deniers on behalf of the israeli govnmt. As far as he and his narrow mind were concerned, this was not 'The Holocaust' this was not even another holocaust ( cos god knows there should only ever be one that we're all forced to remember) Nor was the Armenian suffering even considered a damn genocide. Now, let's all put our minds together and imagine the israeli and jewish reaction to a similar claim by another country's Foreign Minister, regarding the Holocaust. What would be their reaction if the Holocaust had been called a "tragedy"? and positively diminished as an event which was just simply 'sad' :rolleyes: We'd all be labelled f***ing anti-Semites and probably have Mossad out to get our asses!

However, I believe that a while back Yossi Sarid, minister of education promised to ensure that the Armenian Genocide be included in the israeli secondary school history curriculum. But, nothing has been done since then, and quite surely nothing will be done in the near future. Did we ever think otherwise?

These are the two sides, the two facets, of israeli politics. It seems that the chances that israel will ever bother ro recognise the Armenian Genocide in the near future are about as likely as the chances are for Bush to speak in full sentences. Y'see , the israelis and jews are persistent that we acknowledge their holocaust for the rest of our damn lives. And believe it or not, i'm not totally adverse to this as I do believe that understanding and remembering such tragedies is an essential condition for preventing the repetition of such acts in the future. But with all the sh** that Palestinians are receiving - one cannot give the israelis and jewish too much sympathy. Sorry, but it's such unbelievable hypocrisy. They are repeating and reproducing the exact same event that they complain about all the time, on a group of powerless people.

That is the bottom line as far as I'm concerned.

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Postby laura l » Sat May 10, 2003 7:22 am

We'd all be labelled f***ing anti-Semites and probably have Mossad out to get our asses!

We'd be labelled anti-semites for less than that. When France said no to the war, French ashkenaze Jews started calling france anti-semite and said that France still hadn't moved on from its collaborator past. They even demonstrated in favour of teh war, but anti-war protesters outnumbered them, so they just buggered off back to their homes.

They're pissed off because France refuses to be israel's whore. I agree we the French are extremely arrogant, and that I understand is irritating to others, but the good aspect is that we really sherish our independence, and won't let anyone tell us how to behave and what to think. We are rich enough to stand up to them, even if America threatened to impose sanctions on us, we didn't change our mind. And they don't like it. A few years ago, Chirac went to Paletinian territories to visit and he had the Israeli army to "protect" him, and right before his eyes he saw how they were violently pushing away palestinians who just wanted a handshake, he blew up and told the army if they didn't stop it right now he'd go home and provoke a dilomatic insident.

I don't think Chirac is anti-Israeli, I don't even think he's pro-anyone.

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sat May 10, 2003 1:07 pm

The Jewish are predictable - anyone who does not support their cause are labelled anti-semitic. My only reaction to that is ........'and what?' What are ya gonna do about it? I have no interest in their cause given that their interest in other causes is non-existent. They need to get over themselves and realise THEY ARE NOT SUFFERING ANYMORE. There are many Africans living in poverty, with no shoes on their feet, and yet these Jewish folk, living in their fancy apartments and jerking off onto the ir money piles, are STILL whinging about how 'we're suffering'.

Yes Hitler was a bastard.....but Jews weren't his only victims.

If the French are arrogant, what the hell are the yanks?? An allegiance to america has never interested me and I would be more than happy for that nation to be obliterated from the map. I refuse to shed one tear for the spectacle that was September 1O,....or 12th....oh sh** I forgot the date...who cares. I will not give sympathy to a nation that has shown utter contempt and indifference to the sufferings of others. Furthermore, my advice to them would be to clean their own backyards before forcing their ways into ours. If my B*I*T*C*H of a PM, Tony Blair is genuinely interested in pursuing a policy that pushes the world towards peace he would look at himself first. If he has not simply got his tie caught in the US war-machine but recognises action must be taken, then he should pursue these policies to prove it. They don't need to come first, they can be pursued simultaneously. At the moment they don't exist at all……

By all means lets lead the world in claiming that WMDs are a bad thing, that chemical weapons are just awful. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>lets show just how committed we are by scrapping our own.</span> Lets stop selling weapons to repressive regimes. Lets start cleaning up our own mess. Then we might have a case to start policing others…..

Anyway, I remeber when that thing happened in September, Guiliani (who NOW HAS A BOOK OUT - HOW typiucally american) expressed love and alleigiance with israel because 'i know what you're going through' .... the celebrity-wannabe tosser even put on a skull cap and pottered on over to fellow terrorist land of israel 'to be with the victims of the latest suicide bomb'. None of those victims died....so who gives a damn. But a week before that event, 12 Palestinan schoolkids had been shot dead by israeli pigs , I think it was because the kids were pulling faces....something really threatening(!) ..... anyway, did Guiliani go over to the suffering land of Palestine?? Did he f***. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>It was positively ignored by him and the rest of his american hypocrites.</span> He's got his nose well and truly buried up israeli and jewish bum. It's so very pathetic.

So what if Chirac isn't pro-anyone. ...... surely it's the best way to be. Chirac may be a bastard at most times.......but in light of recent events he will go down as the bigger hero in history. :headbanger:

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Postby Id3ntity » Sun May 11, 2003 6:42 pm

Do you honestly think people are going to read your long ass posts? :rolleyes:

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Postby ADRIANA_A » Sun May 11, 2003 7:12 pm

To be perfectly honest .... no, i don't expect people to. :D

But it's a free country/world right?

We're free to post, you're free to ignore. :)

Unfortunately, it's that kind of attitude that's the problem...

But peace to you man...... :crossfingers:

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Sun May 11, 2003 7:23 pm

:lol:

It just gets better and better and better.


B)

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Postby laura l » Tue May 20, 2003 7:56 am

Id3ntity wrote: Do you honestly think people are going to read your long ass posts? :rolleyes:

Judging by your post and the "ass" comment I can tell two things about you: you read it (I said "read" not "understood") and you're American.

So now I definately think yes, some people read them.


Is this post short enough for you? :)

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Postby heloise » Tue May 20, 2003 8:27 am

this board is begining american against all the other civilation...I love that !!

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Postby D!_licious » Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:12 pm

Did you really come up with that, or did you copy that from somewhere else, and what's up with this WHITE POWEr thing.... ;)

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Postby WHITE-POWER » Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:22 pm

Did you really come up with that, or did you copy that from somewhere else


It's called knowledge.

And about the user name: really, I don't question yours now do I :D

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Postby mia22 » Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:37 pm

Very interesting thread ;)

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Postby shake_that_bass » Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:34 pm

The only way hate is stopped if people like you would just blow up.


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